Jailbreak Tesla

[PilotPete]

not stepping on toes

just being a good bit inconsistent in your purported principles

Where is the inconsistency? I stand by paying for what you want. If you think otherwise, maybe I wasn’t clear on something. The written word sometimes leads to misreading.

 

[cvalue13]

Is it illegal to hack the software to unlock stuff? Yep.

not even certain of that

Under section 1201 of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), it is “unlawful to circumvent technological measures used to prevent unauthorized access to copyrighted works.”

but since 2018 there’s an exemption repair of motorized land vehicles (including tractors) by modifying the software.

So it’s not illegal, and instead becomes a cat-and-mouse game of Tesla and buyers trading updates and hacks and indirect consequences like voiding contractual warranties

 

[cvalue13]

Where is the inconsistency? I stand by paying for what you want. If you think otherwise, maybe I wasn’t clear on something. The written word sometimes leads to misreading.

no time for depth, but basically you say companies can do what they wanted. Buyers can vote with her feet. But reciprocally, buyers can do what they want, and sellers can vote with their terms of sale.

If Tesla doesn’t want people, hacking software, which is legal, they may convert entirely to a leasing program business, whereby nobody owns the vehicle asset but them, and then they can do what they want.

all your arguments do, is reduced down to expressing your own personal particular, moral view of what is good or bad. Which is effectively a nonexistent Touchstone for anyone else.

and as a reference, before, one could have plenty good, moral and ethical reasons for jailbreaking. For example, there are vehicles in salvage yards, used car, lots, which would be far more attractive and Bible if Tesla had a break things like ludicrous speed, extended range is, etc.

for a company that says it prioritizes ethical use of resources, seems pretty damn hypocritical, to some folks.

those folks, you may not agree with their morality, but for the exact same reasons they need not agree with yours.

and the point about capitalism, you miss entirely. Your do the right thing notion, is a hairsbreadth away from suggesting that you shouldn’t sell a stock higher than you purchased it for.

 

[rudedawg78]

Why do I sense that when the Cybertruck is released, then a new thread on CTOC will be created called, "How to hack your Cybertruck"

 

[PilotPete]

I did notice you didn't reply to the other post, buy you did reply to my joking one, lol

It's not about entitlement or stealing, it's about the physical thing being in existence and included in the product I purchased. You can talk about it being software locked all you want, but after I give Tesla $40k and get the title, every physical thing in that car is now mine. They don't own anything hardware related. Will it void the warranty to tamper with the software? Yep. Is it illegal to hack the software to unlock stuff? Yep. Is it legal for me to use the hardware in the car? Yep. How I get there is the gray area and what we're talking about.

People are allowed to modify their cars and whatever other items they've legally purchased. Again, my laptop example I thought would help get you there. It's now my motherboard and I can solder anything I want to it, even more RAM slots. If you think that I shouldn't be allowed use the hardware that came with my purchase, I'm not sure what more there is to say on this. Have you had this same issue with all the muscle cars and rice-burners modifying there cars? What are your views on ECU tuning?

Sorry, I couldn’t find a way to respond to the other one in a way I wanted. So I let it pass.

Is it legal for you to turn on your seat heaters with a toggle switch and solder from Home Depot? I don’t know, maybe, probably. To do it through software, I doubt it. In some states, they might have an issue with your toggle switch and safety. Do I care if you do, not really. Your laptop, knock yourself out. ECU tuning? Not legal where I live. California has all these emissions laws and “Tuning” isn’t on the list of things you can do to something you own. I guess technically you can, but then driving on the public roads isn’t legal. Do tons of people do it? Yep, and tons of people add aftermarket exhausts so they can sound cool. Is it legal? Nope, not here. And some cities have sweeps where they ticket every car they hear with it. You pay your money, you takes your chances.

I have no problem with anyone here. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Mine works for me. Hopefully, yours works for you. I don’t want to be the reason anyone bails on a thread. I said I have a strong opinion, and I said I’m not trying to step on toes. We are looking at the issue from very different points of view. Doesn’t make either one wrong or right. It’s like that gold/blue/black/white dress picture someone posted somewhere else. It’s how your view it. If I were to tell you how I see it, I think if you want a feature, you pay for it. You think that if you own a physical item, it‘s within your rights to do whatever you want with it. I see your point, it just doesn’t work for me. So I won’t do it, and you’re at Home Depot. Everyone is happy in my book. I’m not calling Elon and saying ”Dude, 6r is at Home Depot, go get him!” I’m not calling anyone, cause I’m not the judge and jury. The only person I have to answer for, is me.

 

[PilotPete]

no time for depth, but basically you say companies can do what they wanted. Buyers can vote with her feet. But reciprocally, buyers can do what they want, and sellers can vote with their terms of sale.

If Tesla doesn’t want people, hacking software, which is legal, they may convert entirely to a leasing program business, whereby nobody owns the vehicle asset but them, and then they can do what they want.

all your arguments do, is reduced down to expressing your own personal particular, moral view of what is good or bad. Which is effectively a nonexistent Touchstone for anyone else.

and as a reference, before, one could have plenty good, moral and ethical reasons for jailbreaking. For example, there are vehicles in salvage yards, used car, lots, which would be far more attractive and Bible if Tesla had a break things like ludicrous speed, extended range is, etc.

for a company that says it prioritizes ethical use of resources, seems pretty damn hypocritical, to some folks.

those folks, you may not agree with their morality, but for the exact same reasons they need not agree with yours.

and the point about capitalism, you miss entirely. Your do the right thing notion, is a hairsbreadth away from suggesting that you shouldn’t sell a stock higher than you purchased it for.

C,

I hope you read my response to 6r. That’s exactly what I said. I don’t care what anyone else does, I’m just expressing my view. I believe everyone is entitle to their opinion. I’m not buying a Tesla because of their stance on resources or anything else. I like the product, so I’m buying a couple of them. Simple really.

As for stocks, I don’t understand your point. I believe if you take a risk and put out your time and money, you deserve the reward or the loss. If I provide capital to a company for a period of time, and the company’s value increases, I deserve to be rewarded. If they tank, then I lose money. I have no problem either way.

I made the comment about stepping on toes for a few reasons. One of them, if I’m honest, is that you go hard on some of my comments. And I don’t want to piss you off. I like to read your thoughts on some of the CT stuff. You’ve got the Lighting, and that gives you a perspective I don’t have. So I read. I’m not a truck guy. I’ve said it before, never owned one. If I didn’t think the CT was going to be so freaking cool, I’d buy an S. That’s more in line with what I’ve bought my whole life. I bought a big SUV one time because my wife convinced me to get it. I hated the thing, it was a pain in my butt, I never enjoyed driving it, and she has been my ex now for 17 years. Two bad mistakes fixed! So as I venture into big car and truck life, I’m interested in viewpoints like yours for a couple of reasons. 1. You have experience that I don’t. 2. We aren’t married and I don’t have to live with you. A win-win in my book.

And sorry to everyone else that I’ve derailed the thread so many times. Now back to your regularly scheduled rants about the mid gate and 6th seat.

 

[cvalue13]

Why do I sense that when the Cybertruck is released, then a new thread on CTOC will be created called, "How to hack your Cybertruck"

I see people hacking to have full height adjustability

 

[rudedawg78]

I see people hacking to have full height adjustability

Yup, especially in the South!

 

[cvalue13]

That’s exactly what I said. I don’t care what anyone else does, I’m just expressing my view.

?

Suck it up, be a man, do the right thing. It ain’t that hard.

at bottom, the point of some, is the same can be said to Musk

until then, game on

 

[Diehard]

I personally don’t care about FSD enough (or at all) to risk Bricking my brand new CT. Backseat passengers may have to bring their own ski suits. Basically even though I don’t consider neither of those deals as Tesla going too far, I find the industry trends very disturbing. If it keeps going like this, I can see us having to pay a fee or rent to unlock the steering wheel of our $100K trucks down the road.

I think software industry started it. Microsoft’s, Adobe, ……. realized this business of having to constantly come up with value, buying and shelving competing smart ideas can get an expensive way to survive. It is exhausting and it makes an unstable way to run a business. So they figured it is better to be a gate keeper and charge rent instead of giving us everything we need. Having to prove themselves over and over again to make a sale was too much work. On the other hand, charging Rent and making more over all profit for the same stuff was a no brainer. I never thought Adobe could charge rent for photoshop when GIMP was free. I was shocked to see a ton of people only using the basic features that both have pay the rent for Adobe.

All the kicking and screaming here is from those of us that are old enough to remember what it was like to pay for something and actually own it. The good old days when we didn’t have to pay rent for what we already owned.

When I hear Farley get so excited about software, I know he has seen the light. Who would have thought, a car company can make money like Google and apple which got the tablets and smartphones on people’s hands and own them. Making money after that was a breeze. We are literally captive audience in our cars with the remote controls held by Farley, Barra and Musk. They are not changing channels a lot right now but we all know what those remotes are made for.

I fear, the option that if you don’t like it go buy something else is not going to be arround much longer. Once all big boys are in agreement on how to take our money, their lobbyists will make sure legality will have nothing to do with morality.

 

[CyberGus]

People are allowed to modify their cars and whatever other items they've legally purchased.

Clearly you've never lived within an HOA

 

[Zapharus]

So, technically, everything Rich Rebuilds has done is illegal and that one youtuber who made a truck out of her model 3. I remember the days when RIAA was trying to get legislation passed and suing everyone and that lead to how we got DCMA.

This whole thing is a "right to repair" issue, in my view. I guess I view the hardware feature that's locked in software and a rebuild (for whatever reason) as the same issue. It should be the choice of the owner to do what they want with the hardware they purchased. If I want to run a custom OS or device that unlocks everything in my car, I should be legally allowed to do so as long as it's deemed safe for the road.

Tesla can stop updating the car and even stop letting you use the superchargers, but they should not be allowed to prevent you driving your vehicle. Similar to anyone who buys a classic muscle car, tears the guts out and puts in whatever they want. Yes, warranty void, but not illegal.

Tbh, I don’t know if the modding of a “smart” car (akin to a smart phone), such as a Tesla, is considered illegal. What is an issue is Tesla locking people out of using superchargers if they jailbreak their Tesla. As for the bricking, it’s not necessary something done by Tesla, it’s just a possible outcome should a jailbreak go wrong during the process. It’s just like jailbreaking a phone, if something goes wrong, the person runs the risk of bricking the device, except in the case of a car you end up with a much larger paperweight.

I 100% agree with you that if we as consumers purchase something/anything (phone, car, PC, etc.), we should be able to modify said product however we see fit….granted, in the case of a car this should mean that the modification should not be a danger to others IF the vehicle is to be driven on public roads. This could be used to ban those stupid polluting coal rolling trucks on public roads because of excessive polluting.

 

[Crissa]

There will always be people who try to steal when they think they can get away with it. Whether it's shoplifting, using someone elses' login credentials to "get Netflix free", or stealing cable, it's still stealing. Not paying for FSD and then finding a way to steal it is still wrong. Justify it all you want, but it's still stealing. "But, it's my car and I can do what I want with it." Yeah, stealing a capability is still stealing.

Yeah, I'm fun at parties...

Using shared Netflix credentials isn't stealing (unless you're not in the group). Using jailbroken hardware isn't stealing.

Of course, if you jailbreak, you're on your own for updates. That would be stealing.

-Crissa

 

[LoneWolfO6]

It doesn’t work, that’s the confidentiality!

Business Insider (2023)

 

[TyPope]

Using shared Netflix credentials isn't stealing (unless you're not in the group). Using jailbroken hardware isn't stealing.

Of course, if you jailbreak, you're on your own for updates. That would be stealing.

-Crissa

I disagree. Using jailbroken battery capability, for instance, is akin to my wife buying all-you-can-eat shrimp and me just buying a salad and then eating her shrimp with her. I didn't pay for that capacity.

Whatever your reasoning, I think it's shitty and classless to take what you didn't pay for. That goes doubly for looters.

I'm not forcing anyone to go by my opinion. You do you and I'll do me. We can be cordial and let the law sort it out.