Ford EV will gain access to Tesla Superchargers and come with standard NACS ports starting 2025!

[Crissa]

I don’t want Tesla doing anything that will bring the scrutiny of the anti-trust regulators. Buying competitors certainly will.

I think you are probably joking… but just in case.

It's a joke, relating to the average number of working 350kW chargers per EA location is 1.

-Crissa

PS, part of that is their own fault for having so few chargers per station.

 

[CyberGus]

I don’t want Tesla doing anything that will bring the scrutiny of the anti-trust regulators. Buying competitors certainly will.

I think you are probably joking… but just in case.

I’m very serious.

 

[CyberGus]

It's a joke, relating to the average number of working 350kW chargers per EA location is 1.

-Crissa

The joke is the very idea of US regulators stopping a merger.

 

[cvalue13]

The joke is the very idea of US regulators stopping a merger.

never noticed CyberGus was a a big pro-monopoly guy

 

[CyberGus]

never noticed CyberGus was a a big pro-monopoly guy

 

[Luke42]

I honestly don't see this as a huge deal..
In the 1st quarter of 2023 ford sold 11,000 electric vehicles... tesla sold 181,000 so ford will add 10% to the user pool.. not a huge hit.

Good pr move though

Here's the thing.

The way traditional auto companies work, what we see on the road is what they were designing 5 years ago.

The way Tesla works, we see what they're designing now -- and in the future.

Back in the beginning, this was the only way Tesla could operate - because they're a startup in an industry that hasn't had a successful startup in a century.

Ford has been hinting at an electric product onslaught for years, and they probably have had it under wraps for 5 years.

Tesla does make the best EVs on the market today, and they are currently the technological and market leader. But their apparent-lead is much bigger than their actual-lead because of the difference in visibility.

This will all become clear in 5 years.

 

[Greshnab]

Here's the thing.

The way traditional auto companies work, what we see on the road is what they were designing 5 years ago.

The way Tesla works, we see what they're designing now -- and in the future.

Back in the beginning, this was the only way Tesla could operate - because they're a startup in an industry that hasn't had a successful startup in a century.

Ford has been hinting at an electric product onslaught for years, and they probably have had it under wraps for 5 years.

Tesla does make the best EVs on the market today, and they are currently the technological and market leader. But their apparent-lead is much bigger than their actual-lead because of the difference in visibility.

This will all become clear in 5 years.

I get that and agree.. however what i have NOT seen is a lot of demand from Idra for giga presses for other manufacturers. what I am not sure people realize is tesla's BIGGEST advancement isn't in design of the CARS but in the design of the manufacturing process.. until others are reducing part counts and using massive presses .. they are trying to fix the wrong thing!.. IMHO.

 

[cvalue13]

I get that and agree.. however what i have NOT seen is a lot of demand from Idra for giga presses for other manufacturers. what I am not sure people realize is tesla's BIGGEST advancement isn't in design of the CARS but in the design of the manufacturing process.. until others are reducing part counts and using massive presses .. they are trying to fix the wrong thing!.. IMHO.

there aren’t many manufacturers yet producing entirely new manufacturing lines for ground-up BEVs. So for them, they have manufacturing inertia making re-use of existing pine tech more economical compared to their alternative of rebuilding from ground up.

that said, other manu’s, like Ford, are headed in direction of all new plants for Ground-up BEV platforms

Proof in the pudding will be the eating of it, once those facilities are producing ground-up BEVs. remains to be seen what their learnings/strategy shifts will be

also, I’m not sure your comment is entirely true. BMW i3 is just one example. Lots of R&D and alt manu/build processes out there

 

[Luke42]

I get that and agree.. however what i have NOT seen is a lot of demand from Idra for giga presses for other manufacturers. what I am not sure people realize is tesla's BIGGEST advancement isn't in design of the CARS but in the design of the manufacturing process.. until others are reducing part counts and using massive presses .. they are trying to fix the wrong thing!.. IMHO.

Big castings aren't the only way to make an EV.

Given Tesla's unique access to capital (remember that Musk's genius is in generating investor-hype and the stock is priced an order of magnitude higher than the conventional pricing models suggest it should be), making a big capital investment that will drop the marginal cost of each unit produced is a great strategic move.

But there's a lot of ways to make a car, and the majors are going to leverage the investments they've already made in manufacturing. Gigapresses are far from the only way to assemble a chassis - they just happen to be a good fit for leveraging Tesla's strengths at this time.

Battery factories are where this battle is going to be won and lost, and Ford's building their gigafactory in Tennessee: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Oval_City

GM is doing it too: https://www.theverge.com/2023/4/25/23697335/gm-hyundai-ev-battery-factory-samsung-sk-on

We just pay less attention because they keep their PR old-school, and they play their cards close to their chest.

P.S. You'll notice that I'm pretty optimistic about Tesla's future, because I've slipped in to thinking of Tesla, Ford, and GM the American Big Three. Stellantis still exists, of course, but they won't have anything to sell if there's a hard shift to EVs.

 

[AlDente]

It was good to see Jim Farley finally acknowledge Tesla's huge lead (quality and quantity) in EV charging infrastructure. In the original Twitterspace session (glitch free ) he said they (Ford) were standing on the platform watching the Tesla Train go though the station at 300 mph. Interesting metaphor no?

In any case, I'd be interested in how existing Tesla owners with CT reservations feel about this important announcement and how it might impact them. For me, the Supercharger experience has been trouble/hassle free and this news really solidifies Tesla's dominate position in the EV space while giving Ford a lifeline for current and future EV models. Like many Tesla owners, 80+% of my charging is done at home but the CT will be my road tripping vehicle and charging needs to be fast and readily available like now. As long as Tesla can add charger capacity to handle other brand EV charging, I'm good. If I have to start q'ing up at Superchargers ... not so much.

This discussion with Munro Associates President Cory Stubin is also interesting once they get past his weight loss comments.

 

[AlDente]

It's a joke, relating to the average number of working 350kW chargers per EA location is 1.

-Crissa

PS, part of that is their own fault for having so few chargers per station.

I wonder if that uptime statistic includes the EA 350's that are "open" but throttled back to 50kw charging with no explanation? The EA "system" shows a complete lack of a viable plan e.g. ready fire aim ...

 

[cvalue13]

while giving Ford a lifeline for current and future EV models.

this line of thinking begs a question: what did Tesla need of Ford

it’s unreasonable to think this deal was put altruism/charity by Tesla. that would never stand scrutiny by the marker

one could take the view that what Tesla got was a pure revenue-per-charge play, but that seems anemic. Tesla’s stated it would seek only minimal revenue margin from these deals (eg 10%)

While it’s possible that was the sun of Tesla’s motivations, I wouldn’t bet on it. That’s a pure “get” and limited at that.

Beyond “get,” I’d expect there was also some “need” more deeply structured here

I know that will offend the senses of those who appear to believe Tesla is needless. But those folks are left then saying things like “why would Tesla do this!?”

Well, they did. What should that tell the reasonable

 

[AlDente]

this line of thinking begs a question: what did Tesla need of Ford

it’s unreasonable to think this deal was put altruism/charity by Tesla. that would never stand scrutiny by the marker

one could take the view that what Tesla got was a pure revenue-per-charge play, but that seems anemic. Tesla’s stated it would seek only minimal revenue margin from these deals (eg 10%)

While it’s possible that was the sun of Tesla’s motivations, I wouldn’t bet on it. That’s a pure “get” and limited at that.

Beyond “get,” I’d expect there was also some “need” more deeply structured here

I know that will offend the senses of those who appear to believe Tesla is needless. But those folks are left then saying things like “why would Tesla do this!?”

Well, they did. What should that tell the reasonable

Tesla got zero support from most private institutions and government. By getting Farley to publically "kiss the ring", Tesla gets institutional cred they did not have prior to this announcement and, it's consistent with their mission statement. As a shareholder, this was huge and the markets reaction is just the beginning. Ultimately, it was a win/win deal for Tesla/Ford.

 

[cvalue13]

Tesla gets institutional cred they did not have prior to this announcement and, it's consistent with their mission statement.

I suspect both Tesla got all that, and more. Ford, too, insofar as it gets the EV-community's cred of a partnership with Tesla (as well as the stock bump), and consistent with its BEV-related mission statement.

As for what's "more," think for just one example, of the terms of the Federal EV initiative for the build-out of charging stations, doling out $5 billion to states over the next five years. Funding for the initial Interstate portion of the program directs states to build one charging station every 50 miles, capable of charging at least four EVs simultaneously at 150 kW, encourages states to site chargers near travel centers, convenience stores, visitor centers, or restaurants, prioritizes domestic production of chargers, but will have to use CCS.

Now, Ford and Tesla could be angling this partnership towards either (1) accessing more of this funding, or (2) reducing their needs to access this funding while staying advantaged to competitors that are riding on the benefits of the federal funding.

Not to mention, if neither Tesla nor Ford like CSS, and so dislike the federal funding requirement to include CCS, Tesla will no longer be the odd-man out in pressuring states or Fed to reconsider their priorities.

Meanwhile, Ford is likely to have increasing right-of-first-refusal on real estate of dealerships that will shutter as it's Model-E unit segments itself from the ICE business. That's a lot of potential real estate that is disbursed along interstates near "travel centers, convenience stores, visitor centers, or restaurants."

Not saying at all that I can see around all the corners that Tesla/Ford are seeing well beyond. Only saying that I see the makings of lots of resulting strategies that the two can synergize to bring new value to one-another.

 

[CyberGus]

I'm guessing that Tesla gets reciprocity with the Ford charging network.