Elon Musk calls out the UAW for embezzling money from its workers

[Crissa]

Again, your claim does not have 'equal standing' because you're the one making the political assertion and you failed to back it up with any evidence.

So no. Your opinion doesn't beat basic facts. Unions vote for representation, and in fact, due to this scandal, UAW members pushed for even more positions to be up for a vote. Hey, they voted on it.
https://apnews.com/article/business...auto-workers-5edc2ca2b1af49e6022edccf8d384aa6

-Crissa

 

[SparkChaser]

I am a IBT member and we just replaced the Hoffa leadership in a sea change of the highest levels. This will hopefully bring much needed change to the operation of the Union. There are lots of problems and the corruption I see in cooperate operation is much greater and much more accepted. A blind eye is turned until the graft is too much. The legalization of things like stock buy backs have flipped the game beyond what I ever expected. This was illegal and now is the way to funnel huge payoffs to executive.

 

[SSonnentag]

I'm against unions due to their history of violence and anarchy that characterized many of their early events, but now mainly due to the coercive methods and group-think mentality that is often a part of their tactics. These organizations frequently deprive others of freedom of action, and many in leadership are motivated by selfishness and a love of power. Elon's method of governance seems to avoid all these negatives.

 

[SwampNut]

I'm against unions due to their history of violence and anarchy that characterized many of their early events, but now mainly due to the coercive methods and group-think mentality that is often a part of their tactics. These organizations frequently deprive others of freedom of action, and many in leadership are motivated by selfishness and a love of power. Elon's method of governance seems to avoid all these negatives.

Do you have your Nomex suit ready?

 

[SparkChaser]

I'm against unions due to their history of violence and anarchy that characterized many of their early events, but now mainly due to the coercive methods and group-think mentality that is often a part of their tactics. These organizations frequently deprive others of freedom of action, and many in leadership are motivated by selfishness and a love of power. Elon's method of governance seems to avoid all these negatives.

No nomex needed.
I can understand there is a lot of disinformation and the history is pretty bad for unions, but there is no better way I can see that gives workers a voice. Capitalism is terrible except that it is better than any other system we have tried. Unions are certainly flawed but better than any other way I can see that is currently part of the real world.
I have worked in Union shops for the majority of my working life. I have been an organizer, a representative and an officer. The company winds up with the Union they deserve. The worse a company treats their employees the more aggressive the union needs to be. Sadly the dis information and decades long grinding away of union representation and demonization of unions by administrations have taken their toll.

 

[SwampNut]

 

[SparkChaser]

I love popcorn!
I hope I get some in the back of my CT when it gets delivered.

 

[SwampNut]

Orville and Act II are union-made.

 

[ÆCIII]

 

[TheLastStarfighter]

Unions - like governments - are ripe for corruption. Unfortunately they are best options we have for happy lives. I think largely unions could be replaced by smart, powerful government regulations. Guaranteed minimum wages, hours, security, benefits and unbiased dispute resolution could probably do what unions do better, but it would take a bold visionary government to do it. The left won't, because they are controlled by unions, and the right won't, because business people hate giving workers more rights. So we'll continue with the sloppy mess we have for eternity.

 

[happy intruder]

is it salted and buttered?

 

[Bill906]

Unions - like governments - are ripe for corruption. Unfortunately they are best options we have for happy lives. I think largely unions could be replaced by smart, powerful government regulations. Guaranteed minimum wages, hours, security, benefits and unbiased dispute resolution could probably do what unions do better, but it would take a bold visionary government to do it. The left won't, because they are controlled by unions, and the right won't, because business people hate giving workers more rights. So we'll continue with the sloppy mess we have for eternity.

I agree with what you are saying, but would like to further the discussion by adding there are a lot of things unions do that are just outside of what even an extremely powerful government could do. As one example, I watch a lot of cop dramas. Whenever an officer is being investigated, they ask for their union rep. If there's an officer involved shooting, the cop works with his union rep while it's investigated. Another example, a friend of mine worked for the railroad. He was hurt while working. The company wanted to terminate him. He also wanted out. Without the union on his side he may not have negotiated as good of a severance package. I am horrible at negotiating. (Most people are, they just don't always admit it). To pay dues to have someone with negotiating skills on my side for all dealings with my company would be very beneficial to me, and frankly, it would be more fair. The people who become strong managers are people with good negotiating skills.

I am not currently in a union. My work doesn't fall under a career that is typically unionized. I recently applied for a different position within the company. I have interviewed (I also suck at interviews) and I'm waiting for their decision. They hold all the cards. They know how much I make, they know how many other people have applied. I have no idea how many people are even being considered. Now if it's offered to me that is when I'll find out how much of a pay increase they are offering. The new position is significantly more responsibility and will require more work. I feel if I had a union it would at a minimum be able to provide me with more information going in. There is a policy (not sure if it's official or just an "unwritten rule") that employee's don't talk about their salaries. So I have no idea if they lowball me on the new position.

Sorry, didn't mean to type a novel.

 

[SwampNut]

There is a policy (not sure if it's official or just an "unwritten rule") that employee's don't talk about their salaries.

It's a violation of federal law to have such a policy, or to restrict such discussions.

 

[Bill906]

It's a violation of federal law to have such a policy, or to restrict such discussions.

Interesting. I have a story about that. After college I got a job at small company. Worked there almost two years. They were having financial problems and I was getting worried. I told a close friend of mine(grew up next door to each other, went to college together) and he suggested I give him my resume. He gave my resume to his boss, and I got an interview and was hired. The company I left filed bankruptcy and was absorbed by anther company. After a few weeks my boss called me into his office. He very calmly let me know that we typically don't discuss how much we make with other people. I said ok and left. I told my friend about this strange meeting and he laughed and said it was his fault. My friend is like my brother, we talked freely about everything. I didn't even remember telling him how much I made. Apparently I got hired on making significantly more than he made after being there for two years. Our boss immediately gave him a raise. I'm curious how old that federal law is. My story happened in 1999.

Sorry again for the long post. I seem to be in novel writing mode today.

 

[SwampNut]

NLRA was enacted in the 30s, but I don't know if the salary discussion part was always there. I'm not sure if there's a way to find the document over the farther decades. Wayback machine only seems to have a few years worth of pages.