Article: It's becoming increasingly clear Tesla is just another car company -- agree / disagree?

[SpaceYooper]

Answered this about 2 pages back.

It was rhetorical, I wasn't actually asking again. I was just stating that your point is part of my point.

 

[HaulingAss]

Yes that is helpful. Is a 48A Tesla charger considered an L2. I wonder if that quick ramp up is also the case with superchargers.

I have free Supercharging for life on my Model 3 Performance for almost 5 years now but I don't know the answer to most of your questions because it's not something I concern myself with. After I've been on the highway a few hours I let my car navigate to a nearby Supercharger and I plug in and then I walk away. I stretch out as I go use the restroom and I might buy a snack if I've worked up an appetite or maybe just a coffee or a smoothie or something. Then I usually go right back to my car and leave. I don't time it anymore than I timed my gas stops before I had a pure electric car. It's a different mentality though as you don't try to fill it up, you just plug it in for a few minutes while you take care of business and then you have enough range to drive at least a couple more hours. It's not something I think much about because the car will suggest an appropriate place to stop based on the route I'm driving.

I did watch it ramp up a few times when it was all new to me and it did it really quickly, well under a minute, maybe 15 or 30 seconds? I don't watch it anymore because I'm generally in a hurry to take care of business. Plus, it will notify your phone by vibrating if it hits the charge limit before you've taken care of business.

It seems you are asking about a lot of details that no one pays attention to because they simply don't care. It would be like asking how long it takes a cashier to ring up a small order. Who cares? It's just a moment or two, nobody is timing the ramp up. Or are you thie kind of nervious person who checks the time every 10 or 15 seconds no matter what you're doing? That would make me feel uneasy.

 

[cvalue13]

It was rhetorical, I wasn't actually asking again. I was just stating that your point is part of my point.

BTW, through all this note that the answers for a Tesla and its supercharging network are going to be very different from another manu’s BEV and the ‘competing’ charge networks. I have a Ford Lightning, and so no experience with Tesla’s supercharging charging networks - except to say it doesn’t take a genius to know that Tesla’s networks are far superior to the options for the collective competition.

For related reasons, though, I understand that sometimes Tesla’s stations can involve wait times to get to the ‘pump.’ How frequent that is, and how long of a wait, is probably rare and minimal - except perhaps in some rare portions of the country.

Whereas with the competing non-Tesla infrastructure the issue is less about crowds, and more about whether the ‘pumps’ are working at all (or working at full charge potential).

 

[Bill906]

Does this help?

 

[SpaceYooper]

It seems you are asking about a lot of details that no one pays attention to because they simply don't care.

I really only asked 1 question and asked that a couple "details" be considered when answering 1) we are talking about city driving and commuting 2) keep in mind ramp time.

Or are you thie kind of nervious person who checks the time every 10 or 15 seconds no matter what you're doing? That would make me feel uneasy.

Not at all. I was asking just to compare normal fill times with an ICE vehicles to what one could expect with an EV because it is rarely talked about. Advertising leans towards the miles that can be added in "just" 15 or 30 minutes. I was pointing out that is still significantly longer then a normal (in city/commuting) fill time. I thought it would be valuable for the advertising to use a time ICE drivers are used to. Again, I'll say I caveated my question with the statement that I know this is not a big deal and I know it would be outside the norm to NEED this quick stop for a couple dozen miles.

 

[SpaceYooper]

@Bill906 , yes I think that graph is useful. It talks about a specific vehicle at a specific charger. It would be interesting to see different varieties of the most popular commercial chargers out there.

 

[John K]

I am reminded of this Futurama clip

 

[Ranulf]

My use case is unusual. I am in the minority of people who drive 50 miles one way to work. I also take classes in a different city, that adds ~40-50 miles a day. I also do not have a place to charge at home. So ~150 miles driven total each day. Interstate/highway.

If I bought a currently available EV, I would have to supercharge every day. Right now I gas up every 3 days.

I’m hoping the cybertruck’s range is large enough that I can supercharge every 3 days.

Currently saving up for Cybertruck and to build a house, perhaps closer to work.

 

[Cybertruckee]

no one said that he knew what he was regurgitating Crissa. I just feel pity for him

Sorry for the late reply, I was snowbirding in the Caribbean.

You indeed to pity me from your perch of deep freeze in Canada.

And yes, I don't know what I'm regurgitating so don't have to lap it up with gusto like a mad dog.

What do I know indeed?

Is it my several decades career in global or multinational companies where my counterparts need for me to sign off a capital expenditure, not unlike the Texas Giga which with our less dictatorial corporate culture would not have happened because we will hit with high finance cost and the double jeopardy of doubling depreciation expenses with an underutilized Nevada Giga?

Or was it because I'm a Tesla stockholders who are hurting (or swimming in red ink) with Elon Musk's big mouth and constant yapping while dragging his feet to implement what we won and voted on for inclusion reporting, etc.

Maybe, the glimpse I had when my son used to work for Tesla?

So tell me Mr. Jerhenderson which I am lacking knowledge? And while you are it, regale us with your more extensive knowledge and your deep insights.

Or the bits of information and my nephew working for Panasonic?

 

[Crissa]

Tesla is still the most profitable, per car delivered, of any carmaker.
It's also the one increasing its units build/sold the most.
And the only one with structural batteries.
Also the only one with in-house cell production, one of the few with in-house battery production...

And Panasonic may run the machines in the cell factory in Nevada, Tesla owns the factory and all the output.

So it's kinda hard to say it's like other manufacturers at all.

-Crissa

 

[Cybertruckee]

Let me repeat, no one is arguing about Tesla's profitability nor it's production and innovative manufacturing capabilities.

The premise of the title of the thread is that Tesla was unable to leverage it's technology, in-house developed softwares and data base into revenue streams to make them more than a car company.

 

[Crissa]

It's not 'just another car company' when it's the most profitable per car.

Give them time to leverage their technology. They've only been shipping Autopilot for hardly a decade yet.

-Crissa

 

[BradSomrak]

It's not 'just another car company' when it's the most profitable per car.

Give them time to leverage their technology. They've only been shipping Autopilot for hardly a decade yet.

-Crissa

You're cherry-picking per car profit as your chosen metric because, obviously, it's the most favorable to your position. But profitability on a per car basis is only part of the overall analysis, not the end all, be all. If Ferrari makes an ultra expensive car that turns a higher per-car profit than Tesla, does Ferrari get to claim it is superior to Tesla as a manufacturer because of per car profitability? I would say no, personally, because scale and other things matter. Other manufacturers make more in total net profit, of course, through higher volume and lower per-car profits. Do they get to cite a greater cumulative net profit as evidence they are more than "just another car company?" At that point, the assessment devolves into what metrics you want to use to cite why Car Company X is better than Y. Then you're simply debating the merits of a bunch of car companies.

The premise of the "Tesla is more than a car company" belief necessarily requires revenue and substantial profits beyond......selling cars. And that hasn't come to fruition, yet. As you noted, though, the tech they have is relatively new, and let's see what they do with it. It's entirely possible, if not likely, they they do become more than a car company. I think it is fair to say that has not yet happened, though, even if you fundamentally believe it is coming. The headline of the article is clickbait, of course, but the overarching premise is kind of fair, IMO.

I am of the opinion Tesla is - at present - simultaneously an elite car company and "just another car company."

 

[jerhenderson]

I must say, this is by far the best explanation I've ever read on why legacy automakers are really in deep trouble.

Well said, sir. Well said.

100%

 

[charliemagpie]

You're cherry-picking per car profit as your chosen metric because, obviously, it's the most favorable to your position. But profitability on a per car basis is only part of the overall analysis, not the end all, be all. If Ferrari makes an ultra expensive car that turns a higher per-car profit than Tesla, does Ferrari get to claim it is superior to Tesla as a manufacturer because of per car profitability? I would say no, personally, because scale and other things matter. Other manufacturers make more in total net profit, of course, through higher volume and lower per-car profits. Do they get to cite a greater cumulative net profit as evidence they are more than "just another car company?" At that point, the assessment devolves into what metrics you want to use to cite why Car Company X is better than Y. Then you're simply debating the merits of a bunch of car companies.

The premise of the "Tesla is more than a car company" belief necessarily requires revenue and substantial profits beyond......selling cars. And that hasn't come to fruition, yet. As you noted, though, the tech they have is relatively new, and let's see what they do with it. It's entirely possible, if not likely, they they do become more than a car company. I think it is fair to say that has not yet happened, though, even if you fundamentally believe it is coming. The headline of the article is clickbait, of course, but the overarching premise is kind of fair, IMO.

I am of the opinion Tesla is - at present - simultaneously an elite car company and "just another car company."

Horns and halo

MSM, the plethora of competition, have shared an agenda to undermine anything good, and accentuate anything anomalous.

Now after wading though all the merde , Tesla is now the lowest rung it can be... 'An Elite Car Company'.

An elite car company who accidentally built a super computer

And a Megapack - which includes arbitrage.


Amazon is an Elite bookseller.