Article: It's becoming increasingly clear Tesla is just another car company -- agree / disagree?

[John K]

It may be impractical, but it's being asked a lot and not just by me. EV advocates, dealers and manufacturers should answer the question truthfully and hope it doesn't turn the potential convert away. If the answer is only a couple miles, then remind them how rare it will be, (since they can basically fill up at will every night at home) so wait a couple more minutes and they'll be good to go.

By not providing an actual number and instead changing the conversation while essentially telling the consumer their question is dumb, it's going to be a turn-off. There's no harm in telling the truth and if the answer isn't sufficient, then give a solution, like waiting a few more minutes on this potentially rare occasion.

in other words, current state requires a minimum of 15 minute charging is the answer when many variables are unknown to grab those few quick miles. (Not from a level one charger)

I am interpreting the question to be the minimum amount of charging time to get an equivalent of range with 1 to 2 gallons of gas in a typical ICE vehicle. Let me know if my interpretation is off.

As to charging from home, I understand that is not your question and so I am not describing the benefits in doing so. Also when my son charges at home, I basically am paying for his go juice.

 

[cvalue13]

It may be impractical, but it's being asked a lot and not just by me. EV advocates, dealers and manufacturers should answer the question truthfully and hope it doesn't turn the potential convert away. If the answer is only a couple miles, then remind them how rare it will be, (since they can basically fill up at will every night at home) so wait a couple more minutes and they'll be good to go.

I appreciate the sentiment here. If “customer is always right,” then there better be a ready answer - seems to be the gist.

Perhaps a so far unstated glitch in communication here is your apparent assumption that there are readily available fast chargers dotted around towns? Because with few exceptions, there aren’t. In Austin, TX, there’s maybe 2, nowhere convenient to me. There instead are L2 chargers for people to use while plugged in at work, the grocery store, etc. - and those will take an hour or more to give material charge.

So again the correct and truthful answer here has already been given numerous times: you are not going to “top off” for 5 minutes anywhere, you’re going to spend a good deal longer getting any such “emergency” charge if you find yourself having for several days straight not charged your car at home - don’t do that, that’s not how you operate an electric car.

And if buyers of refrigerators keep asking how long it takes to cook a steak, the kidgloves answer will still be “that’s not how refrigerators are used.”

 

[Dusty]

My only question was how many miles can one get in a quick 5 minute stop if needed while on the road (not to be confused with a road trip) just somewhere in town?

There have been some good answers provided, but I don't think I've seen any that addressed the ramp-up time when plugging in. I didn't see much about this online either. I just can't imagine it's completely linear. I'm assuming the charger doesn't jump right into its max charge rate. So how many miles can realistically be added in just a few minutes?

On my 48A Tesla wall charger at home it takes less than 30 seconds for the charger to go from plugging in to max draw when the battery is below 80%.

Your dash console or app will tell you in kWs how much energy your battery is soaking up per hour. My home charger gets 11kW/h or about 10% battery every 45 minutes in my MYP.

Temperature, battery condition, battery size, and charger capability will affect the charge rate.

Rough guess, MYP with less than 80% soc on a 250kW super charger will get around a +20% charge after 5 or so minutes. Your range from that 20% depends on a ton of variables.

Does that help?

 

[SpaceYooper]

I am interpreting the question to be the minimum amount of charging time to get an equivalent of range with 1 to 2 gallons of gas in a typical ICE vehicle. Let me know if my interpretation is off.

Yes that is fair.

 

[Dusty]

If thats the case then— 5 or so minutes on a supercharger is like getting 1/5 of a tank of gas in a MY if it's at less than 75% soc. A 5-6 minute charge on a battery with 80% or more yields less.

You'd have to use personal judgement to determine how many miles you get.

 

[SpaceYooper]

I appreciate the sentiment here. If “customer is always right,” then there better be a ready answer - seems to be the gist.

Perhaps a so far unstated glitch in communication here is your apparent assumption that there are readily available fast chargers dotted around towns? Because with few exceptions, there aren’t. In Austin, TX, there’s maybe 2, nowhere convenient to me. There instead are L2 chargers for people to use while plugged in at work, the grocery store, etc. - and those will take an hour or more to give material charge.

So again the correct and truthful answer here has already been given numerous times: you are not going to “top off” for 5 minutes anywhere, you’re going to spend a good deal longer getting any such “emergency” charge if you find yourself having for several days straight not charged your car at home - don’t do that, that’s not how you operate an electric car.

And if buyers of refrigerators keep asking how long it takes to cook a steak, the kidgloves answer will still be “that’s not how refrigerators are used.”

Fair point that chargers are not as readily available as gas stations. But one (super, L2 whatever) might be more available (closer) then home.

Comparing a rare needed charge in town to a consumer asking the fridge to cook a steak is nonsense. Cars move people whether they are gas or electric. People are not perfect and $#&! happens sometimes outside of our control. One might need a quick charge in town sometime. That's hardly asking a fridge to cook a steak. Now, if I was asking my EV to find me Real Estate clients, that might be a fair comparison to asking my fridge to cook for me. Funny thing is that I actually think my CT will help me get clients...via starting conversations.

 

[SpaceYooper]

On my 48A Tesla wall charger at home it takes less than 30 seconds for the charger to go from plugging in to max draw when the battery is below 80%.

Yes that is helpful. Is a 48A Tesla charger considered an L2. I wonder if that quick ramp up is also the case with superchargers.

 

[Dusty]

It ramp/handshake time to max at a supercharger just like at home on the wall charger. When you set your nav destination to a supercharger the car preconditions your battery for max rate of charge on the way.

If someone else comes along and plugs into the supercharger you're using the connection rate will fluctuate for a few seconds as the load balances.

 

[cvalue13]

Yes that is helpful. Is a 48A Tesla charger considered an L2. I wonder if that quick ramp up is also the case with superchargers.

a 48A is on the medium/slower range of L2 charging

But one (super, L2 whatever) might be more available (closer) then home.

If it’s an L2, then we’re not talking 5 minutes. You’re gonna want to plan a meal around it. For a 48A L2, I’m guesstimating something like 20-45 miles equivalent of charge, per hour of charge.

 

[cvalue13]

Comparing a rare needed charge in town to a consumer asking the fridge to cook a steak is nonsense.

There’s what I assumed was an obvious dose of hyperbole, yes - but it’s not nonsense. It’s an analogy. your suggestion was that as a principle if buyers are asking questions about how a product works it deserves a response on its own terms. And as the analogy suggests, it’s not the case that every uninformed question needs to be answered on its own terms. Sometimes the appropriate answer to uninformed questions is, “that’s not how you’re going to want to use this product.”

 

[Luke42]

I acknowledged the filling up at home multiple times. My question pertained to having to add some quick miles when not home.

It seems like you're trying to play gotcha games. But the reality is that EV driving patterns are just a little bit different than ICE vehicles.

In real life with a Tesla Model Y, the pattern is as follows:

Normal day - <= 3 hours highway driving:

1. You leave home with the battery = 90% every morning.
2. Return home, sleep, and repeat step #1.

Road trip day - > 3 hours highway driving:

1. You leave home with the battery >= 90% every morning. Charge to 100% is optional.
2. Drive for 3 hours, charge for 40 minutes. Repeat as necessary.
3. When you return home (or stay at a hotel with a charger), return to step #1. If you stay somewhere without a charger, continue where you left off on step #2.

EV driving follows a different pattern then ICE driving, but I recently took a 2200 mile roadtrip in my Model Y. The car was almost always charged before my kids were ready to go.

Are there corner cases where someone driving a gas car can "get there faster"? I guess so -- medical couriers and those vehicles that escort wide loads probably need to be gas until the trucks they escort are electric.

Would your average Midwestern Dad win by driving an EV? Yes!!! I get all of the upsides of EV driving, and the tradeoffs don't matter in my use-case.

When I commute with my EV, it's charged at home every day. When I road-trip, I really can't push my kids any harder than driving 3 hours and resting for 40 minutes -- so having a car that does the same thing is just fine.

 

[Ogre]

I acknowledged the filling up at home multiple times. My question pertained to having to add some quick miles when not home.

I’ve owned my Tesla for 2 years and haven’t had this issue so can’t really say.

When I do, I’ll shoot you a PM.

 

[SpaceYooper]

There’s what I assumed was an obvious dose of hyperbole, yes - but it’s not nonsense. It’s an analogy. your suggestion was that as a principle if buyers are asking questions about how a product works it deserves a response on its own terms. And as the analogy suggests, it’s not the case that every uninformed question needs to be answered on its own terms. Sometimes the appropriate answer to uninformed questions is, “that’s not how you’re going to want to use this product.”

That's a good portion of the point. It may not be how they "want" to use it. They are are out of charge for some reason. They don't want to charge or be inconvenienced any more then is necessary...so how quick can they get that gallon or two equivalency?

 

[Ogre]

That's a good portion of the point. It may not be how they "want" to use it. They are are out of charge for some reason. They don't want to charge or be inconvenienced any more then is necessary...so how quick can they get that gallon or two equivalency?

Answered this about 2 pages back.

 

[SpaceYooper]

It seems like you're trying to play gotcha games. But the reality is that EV driving patterns are just a little bit different than ICE vehicles.

In wasn't. I actually thought I was posting a pretty simple question. Caveating the question with the statement that I know it's not a big deal and I know that driving is different in an EV.

I didn't foresee this question as unreasonable. Hell, people run out of gas. I can't explain why. It's never happened to me. There are gas stations everywhere, and yet but people still manage to run out.

I don't know what circumstances would lead to someone needing a quick charge in town, but I'm sure the need exists. Was just curious what they would get in a quick stop and thought it might be good to put that info out there, especially if it's better then what the public might think.