Any network geniuses in the forum to answer a question?

[jhogan2424]

I have been dealing with the same very specific WiFi access point issue in three separate locations that I have yet to solve and hoping with all the intelligent folks that hang around here it is likely someone can give me a conclusive answer. If someone wants to take a crack at it raise your hand and I will type out the issue. It’s rather windy so I don’t want to waste a lot of cyberspace typing it up with my thumbs if nobody feels up to the challenge. I am definitely not a computer network expert so what seems difficult to figure for me may be very apparent to someone in the know. Someone in the know please raise your hand and I’ll get to typing!

 

[Deleted member 5322]

I have been dealing with the same very specific WiFi access point issue in three separate locations that I have yet to solve and hoping with all the intelligent folks that hang around here it is likely someone can give me a conclusive answer. If someone wants to take a crack at it raise your hand and I will type out the issue. It’s rather windy so I don’t want to waste a lot of cyberspace typing it up with my thumbs if nobody feels up to the challenge. I am definitely not a computer network expert so what seems difficult to figure for me may be very apparent to someone in the know. Someone in the know please raise your hand and I’ll get to typing!

What is your issue?
I think I can help you. Worked as a network engineer for about 10 years

 

[jhogan2424]

Thanks Tim I will start with the shortest version I can and then add to the story if you have questions. I have 4 locations( totally separate, my home, my business, my weekend getaway, and a warehouse) using the same type of POE access points and 3 locations of the 4 locations are giving a problem. Here is the basic setup of the one location that works correctly… Internet comes in on fiber to supplied ISP wireless router. I do not use this wireless router and simply run a cat 6 from one of the router’s ports to an 8 port POE+ switch. From this switch I run to about 5 indoor and outdoor access points along with one POE hardware controller that allows all of the access points to become a mesh system. All of the access points and controller are from the TP Link Omada system. That is the basic setup at the location that works perfect. Now to the problem I am having at the other locations …
As far as the mesh systems theirselves, they work great and I have no complaints. The problem is how they are powered. The access points claim to support being powered from POE af, at, and passive POE. They are supplied with a POE injector in the box but can be powered by a switch if you have one, which I do. My switch is nowhere close to reaching power limits overall or individual port limits. Now, for some reason plugging the access points directly to the switch with a standard 8 wire cat 6 cable they get no power, or possibly they get some power but not enough power to function but in either case they are dead BUT through trial and error I have found 2 ways of getting them to power up. The first way is inserting the supplied POE injector between the switch and the access point they will fire up and work normally. And when I say inserting the Poe injector i mean just the injector WITHOUT plugging the injector into power, What the heck? The second way I stumbled upon yesterday was that I had one access point that was working straight feom the switch and couldn’t figure out why it was working and other weren’t. After close examination I found that the cat5e cable that was powering that particular access point from the switch only had 4 wires inside not the typical 8 wires. I don’t know where I got this cable it was just in my extra parts box but for whatever reason it was working. So, I tried moving this goofy cable to other access points and boom, they would also power up with the 4 wired cable. And to throw another variable in, I tried the hardware controller that is also Poe powered and it works straight off the switch with any cable I chose. I am not understanding this at all. I want the access points to run directly off the Poe switch as they should. The hardware controller designed for these access points works perfectly fine straight off the Poe switch so why dont the access points?I tested the system with the 4 wire cable installed and everything worked fine. Data was flowing to all access points but of course I had the have the UNPOWERED poe injectors in line with the other access points to make them work. I want a clean and efficient install and don’t want the extra mess of injectors hanging all over the place. Obviously these injectors shouldn’t be needed since the access points are running off the switch and the injectors aren’t even powered. The craziest part is that I have the EXACT same setup at the first location that works perfectly with normal cat6 cables and no injectors. I am using the exact same Poe switches, Hardware controller, and access points. I thought maybe a bad POE switches but swapped out with known good switches and same problem. The length of any one cable doesn’t exceed 150’ but just to confirm that wasn’t the problem I put the entire system together with 10’ long cables and same problem. The only difference I know of is the parent routers are different as they are different ISPs but that shouldn’t make any difference as I am just plugging into an empty router port and starting from there. Each location is backed up by a UPS of different brands but obviously that isn’t a factor. Also, all firmware to every device at every location has been updated to the latest. I know this is a long explenation to define such a small problem but it’s the only way I know how to get across what I am trying to say. I’m not educated on this stuff and only know what I have been forced to learn working on my own stuff. I just don’t understand. Do you have any ideas?

 

[electricAK]

Most switches have POE ports that turn off/on based on the device you plug in.

My guess is that your switch is not properly detecting that a POE device is plugged in, and thus not supplying POE. Something about the signaling is changing when you connect through the (unpowered) POE injectors, and it makes the switch realize, "oh I need to turn on POE for this device."

If that is what is happening, and the same thing happens when you swap out the switch, that suggests that the access points are not working properly (could have been damaged in a power surge), or possibly just not compatible with your switch (and/or cheaply made in general).

I've had issues with mismatched AP / Switch brands. Sometimes they aren't truly compatible. You could call the switch manufacturer's support line and see if there is a known compatibility issue.

 

[jhogan2424]

Thank you for the reply. I will do some tests and tinkering using the info you gave me and report back.

 

[Deleted member 5322]

I think the issue is cat6 wires despite how funny and simple it sounds.
If the switch is configured exactly the same way as "working" one.
What cable do you use? I mean is it bare copper or CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)?
I had many issues with CCA cable if it runs more than 100ft. POE security cameras are really sensitive to resistance and often do not start if the voltage is a bit lower than it needs.
solution is really simple and cheap. It always saves my day, instead re-run line we just added this small device on the camera side and vualya!
RJ45 Coupler

(Picture is taken from amazon)
That is why when you add POE injector to the line even without powering it from the grid your AP started working. It has a microscheme inside that works as voltage rectifier.
Let me know how it works out.

 

[jhogan2424]

I have a mixture of a few different brands of wiring but most of the longer runs are good quality copper that my electrician uses in new residential construction. They are mostly from leftover boxes of wire from finished houses that I’ve saved and made into lengths I need. I like doing this because the cables end up being the exact length needed. I do have a few pigtails here and there that might be CCA but I’ll have to check. If I do they would just be short pieces I have acquired over the years that come boxed with various items. I will track these down and replace just to alleviate that possibility too. And yes the switch at the working location is the exact same brand and model as all of them. I have tried several other switches too but still no bueno. Also, in the picture above are those just simple couplers or are they some type of special voltage conditioners?

 

[Deleted member 5322]

...... Also, in the picture above are those just simple couplers or are they some type of special voltage conditioners?

They are just simple couplers, I usually keep for "just in case". I bought them from this seller:
( Amazon.com: DEFACE RJ45 Coupler Cable Coupler Cat8 Cat7 Cat6 Cat5e Female to Female Ethernet Adapter 10pcs per Pack Black : Electronics )
I would recommend using a nice CAT6 tester. Klein Tools VDV501-851- this is one of the cheapest testers that can show if you have "SPLIT" because I think your power pair might be split as well. (in this case, Cat6 data plug has a garbage quality - cut the old ones and make new ones on both ends). Coupler should help in this case as well.
We used Fluke network testers, but they cost more than $1.2k. With this guy, you will see exactly what makes all troubles.

 

[jhogan2424]

They are just simple couplers, I usually keep for "just in case". I bought them from this seller:
( Amazon.com: DEFACE RJ45 Coupler Cable Coupler Cat8 Cat7 Cat6 Cat5e Female to Female Ethernet Adapter 10pcs per Pack Black : Electronics )
I would recommend using a nice CAT6 tester. Klein Tools VDV501-851- this is one of the cheapest testers that can show if you have "SPLIT" because I think your power pair might be split as well. (in this case, Cat6 data plug has a garbage quality - cut the old ones and make new ones on both ends). Coupler should help in this case as well.
We used Fluke network testers, but they cost more than $1.2k. With this guy, you will see exactly what makes all troubles.

Thank you for all the info. It will take me a few days to get the items you recommended to my door and then I’ll start more testing. I‘m about to pull my hair out over this so I really need the break anyway. I can come back fresh and tie into it again when those items arrive. Thanks again and I’ll post up when I get some more info.