Elon Musk Violated Labor Laws With 2018 Tweet, Tesla Ordered To Reinstate Union Activist

[Crissa]

This isn't Europe or Germany. Not gonna happen.

That's just giving up.

-Crissa

 

[Luke42]

This isn't Europe or Germany. Not gonna happen.

It didn't happen.

But also doesn't look like it received due consideration.

 

[TruckElectric]

It didn't happen.

There is no reason to state the obvious.

But also doesn't look like it received due consideration.

Receiving "due consideration" is your opinion.

In my opinion it would go over like a lead balloon.

 

[TruckElectric]

That's just giving up.

-Crissa

Nope, just reality.

I see no need for Tesla to unionize.

 

[Luke42]

In my opinion it would go over like a lead balloon.

Unions can really solve problems in the right circumstances.

Some unions are problematic, of course, but dismissing the concept is naive.

One of my MBA-friends made a high-profile short-timeline construction project into a success by getting the unions on his side. The main thing was that they agreed to pay the workers overtime without complaint. The workers were happy to work hard and work long hours, they just wanted to be paid for it. Everyone got what they wanted, and the project was a success.

The system can work really -- if everyone wants to be reasonable.

 

[Crissa]

Yeah.

We should be thinking of getting everyone into a Union - but then limiting the more harmful practices. Just like we regulate companies. Just because something gets more money into some people's pockets doesn't make it better, it has to be better for most. If Unions couldn't agree to multi-tier contracts or discriminate against people joining (or licensed or certified or experience)... There's a bunch of things that could be done better.

But the basic idea of workers having a vote just like the investors having a vote... That seems worthwhile.

Right now it's a bit of a mess.

-Crissa

 

[Jow]

took a tour of the Winnebago factory when picking up my last coach. the old guy giving the tour explained that there were two reasons Winnebago survived that last economic disaster back in 2008, and those were:
- they make most of their product in-house
- and they're non-union
he said back in the 60s and 70s, whenever the employees started talking union again, the owner would reply, go ahead, i'll just shut the f'n place down. kinda stopped that talk real fast.

 

[Crissa]

he said back in the 60s and 70s, whenever the employees started talking union again, the owner would reply, go ahead, i'll just shut the f'n place down. kinda stopped that talk real fast.

That's straight up illegal. And that owner should have his company taken away. He probably has loads of other labor violations.

By dollar, wage theft is the largest form of crime in the US.

-Crissa

 

[TruckElectric]

And that owner should have his company taken away.

You do? And who would be responsible for doing the "taken away" from the owner and what would they do with this company?

 

[Crissa]

You do? And who would be responsible for doing the "taken away" from the owner and what would they do with this company?

For violating labor law by making a threat?

Yes, it should be taken away from him and given to his employees.

I do not take kindly to fools thinking their money lets them threaten people - or violate the public trust.

-Crissa

 

[TruckElectric]

For violating labor law by making a threat?

Yes, it should be taken away from him and given to his employees.

I do not take kindly to fools thinking their money lets them threaten people - or violate the public trust.

-Crissa

Yes, comrade!

 

[Crissa]

Yes, comrade!

C'mon. I'm okay with them doing what they want with their business.

But using it as a cudgel ought not be allowed. Threats are not cool.

-Crissa

 

[SparkChaser]

The pendulum needs to find a middle ground.

Back in the day ( no I am not belittling or making nothing of horrendous conditions that still exist, just trying to make a point) workers were like ants and "management walked all over them". Then as time went on the pendulum began swinging from that extreme side to " workers rights" - despite the severity of some workers actions those workers through Unions - held management hostage and at bay ( this is the other side of the pendulum swing).

So I can see the distrust/animosity between these factions. They just need to come to a middle ground and work together.

Particularly wages because a look at some CEOs/CFOs... who receive multi-millions YET drive a company into the ground then get hired again at another Corp., do the same thing and do it all over again and... but all they do is leave a trail of shattered lives and bankrupt business's.

Middle ground PLEASE!

So when were the days the unions and workers held all the power?

I have never seen it. At no time in the US history that I know of was that ever true.
please provide a reference.

 

[Crissa]

So when were the days the unions and workers held all the power?

Depends on the Union and the industry. In the 1920s, Unions could strike for anything. And some were pretty powerful.

Even today, some unions, like police unions, wield a large amount of control over contracts, to the point of forcing payments to members who've been convicted of crimes.

But these powers have been very uneven. And even now, Unions are at a nadir. We should do something about that... We shouldn't have both the fewest Unions in the last hundred years and some of the worst. That's just untenable.

-Crissa

 

[TruckElectric]

So when were the days the unions and workers held all the power?

I have never seen it. At no time in the US history that I know of was that ever true.
please provide a reference.

UAW GM Strike of 1998

https://www.wsj.com/articles/gm-str...conomic-punch-they-did-in-the-90s-11568722899
" Economists estimated the GM strike shaved about half a percentage point off gross domestic product growth in the second quarter of 1998."

https://www.mlive.com/business/mid-michigan/2013/06/10_things_to_know_about_histor.html
"The strike cost General Motors more than $2 billion in profits."

https://www.nytimes.com/1998/06/26/business/uaw-strike-is-being-felt-far-from-flint.html
"Now the impact of the strike is reaching into communities and states where the auto industry has been less visible than in the industrial Midwest. ITT Industries has laid off 1,200 workers at a windshield wiper factory in Rochester. The Lear Corporation has laid off 2,800 employees at car seat factories from Delaware to Texas. And Harvard Industries has laid off 900 of the 1,250 workers at its factories in Churchill, Tenn.; Wytheville, Va., and Newfields, N.H."


Longshoreman Strike 2015

https://www.usnews.com/news/article...st-coast-labor-disputes-cost-still-unresolved
Economy Still Reeling from West Coast Slowdown
America's economy is still hungover from a dockworker labor dispute that was technically resolved a year ago.

'But the country's hangover from the slowdown has hardly been short-lived. American companies that were unable to ship their products in a timely manner began accumulating more and more extra supplies and products. This inventory glut crowded warehouses, eventually forcing companies to cut back on their new orders to clear out their backed-up storage facilities.
This dynamic inherently reduces new orders of goods, which hurts U.S. manufacturers and suppliers and ultimately restricts domestic economic growth. Brad McMillan, a senior vice president and chief investment officer at Commonwealth Financial Network, estimated earlier this year that the ongoing inventory correction slashed about 0.5 percentage points from America's weak fourth-quarter GDP number."


https://www.theatlantic.com/busines...riefly-slowed-down-the-entire-economy/385858/
How 14,000 Workers Managed to Slow Down the Entire Economy
Longshoremen play an indispensable role in getting 90 percent of consumer goods into the country—and they know how to use that to their advantage.


https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ports-labor-20150218-story.html
Small but powerful union is at center of port dispute
“Every day, ship owners have to pay a lot of money for a ship. The cranes are very expensive, and if they’re not being used, that’s wasted money,” said Marc Levinson, an economist and author of “The Box: How the Shipping Container Made the World Smaller and the World Economy Bigger.” “Containerization made the shipping industry very capital-intensive, and that effectively gave power to the union.”