Subsidies in exchange for charger access+CCS standard?

[rlhamil]

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politic...la-subsidy-musk-unlocks-supercharging-network

Not to take it into no-no land, but that is at least a plausible functionality condition rather than an alleged bias against non-unionized Tesla; in other words, it's a condition that makes sense to advance the utility of all EVs. (benefit of the doubt)

 

[fritter63]

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politic...la-subsidy-musk-unlocks-supercharging-network

Not to take it into no-no land, but that is at least a plausible functionality condition rather than an alleged bias against non-unionized Tesla; in other words, it's a condition that makes sense to advance the utility of all EVs. (benefit of the doubt)

Agreed, but we need to dump that idiotic CCS plug.... NACS FTW!

 

[rlhamil]

Agreed, but we need to dump that idiotic CCS plug.... NACS FTW!

It's bulky and probably hard to handle and ugly and over complex and obviously designed by committee...but there are some arguments whether (at least version 2 of) it has the potential for more functionality (I haven't looked into it enough to have an opinion on that yet). And the EU mandates the darn thing, maybe other places too (AFAIK chargers and EVs including Teslas sold in at least the EU have the CCS connector on them).

Sadly we can't make everyone do what we want them to. Although maybe beyond expecting them to not misbehave badly, we shouldn't want to...even if they don't always return the favor.

Beta was better mostly (smaller, better quality), but VHS won (longer recording times). The real win is to just pick one, even if it's not the best, because that makes it likelier that fast chargers will become as common as gas stations, putting range anxiety (for those lesser vehicles lacking the range of a higher end Cybertruck) to rest.

I still miss the bigger nozzles for leaded gas, on the theory that they might have filled faster. But give or take a minute, I still get where I want to go with narrow nozzles and unleaded.

edit: have you ever seen a German wall socket and plug? Huge. But not likely to be casually knocked loose, and there's no way to touch the hot prongs if it's partly plugged in. Not polarized, I guess lamp sockets have to be fully insulated and/or switches turn off both wires...but enough sloppy wiring in the US has hot and return reversed so that one had better be careful with anything that depends on the polarization anyway.

 

[Crissa]

Carrots work better than sticks. Bonuses better than penalties. Even if they're mechanically the same.

-Crissa

 

[rlhamil]

Carrots work better than sticks. Bonuses better than penalties. Even if they're mechanically the same.

Given human nature, and provided bonuses are defined in such a way that they don't have unintended consequences, I'm inclined to agree...provided they are temporary with a phase-out (better than sudden shutdown) at either a goal achieved or if not, a time limit. Tilting the playing field can have complicated effects, and the total of laws and regulations needs to be kept from growing so fast, perhaps even reduced...and not endlessly justified by increase in social or technological or environmental complexities or population density. Otherwise the regulatory complexity reaches a point where nobody can figure it out, and predicting consequences becomes too unreliable.

One of Asimov's short sci-fi stories described society run by AIs. They seemed at one point to be making mistakes, but those irritations or inequities were actually not mistakes but a calculated part of making permanent the babysitting not of anyone in particular, but of humanity as a whole. (The Evitable Conflict)

 

[fritter63]

Carrots work better than sticks. Bonuses better than penalties. Even if they're mechanically the same.

-Crissa

The carrot should be obvious here.

Tesla charging standard:

- smaller and therefore cheaper to build
- more reliable (SC vs electrify America as an example)
- already ubiquitous!

Seems like a no brainer to me. If only I were king.....

 

[Ogre]

The carrot should be obvious here.

Tesla charging standard:

- smaller and therefore cheaper to build
- more reliable (SC vs electrify America as an example)
- already ubiquitous!

Seems like a no brainer to me. If only I were king.....

We have 50,000 reliable endpoints using the Tesla charger.

There are 20,000 or so super unreliable endpoints using CCS in the US.

There are 3x as many vehicles in the US which support the NACS style charger and it predates the CCS adaptor.

Seems like the most practical solution is to use the adaptor which is most widely supported and now open.

 

[rlhamil]

The carrot should be obvious here.

Tesla charging standard:

- smaller and therefore cheaper to build
- more reliable (SC vs electrify America as an example)
- already ubiquitous!

Seems like a no brainer to me. If only I were king.....

Majority rule, where the inferior can win by being more numerous (number of companies, number of countries where the worse solution is standard, etc; not necessarily number of vehicles already in existence)

 

[Ogre]

Majority rule, where the inferior can win by being more numerous (number of companies, number of countries where the worse solution is standard, etc; not necessarily number of vehicles already in existence)

There are more Teslas on the road in the US at this point than all other EVs combined.

 

[HaulingAss]

We have 50,000 reliable endpoints using the Tesla charger.

There are 20,000 or so super unreliable endpoints using CCS in the US.

There are 3x as many vehicles in the US which support the NACS style charger and it predates the CCS adaptor.

Seems like the most practical solution is to use the adaptor which is most widely supported and now open.

Concise and well-stated. Not much more to say (considering NACS is also technologically superior).

That doesn't mean the obvious solution will be the winning solution because entrenched interests still have an out-sized influence relative to their meager contributions towards electrification and would hate to lose to a small upstart, even if their solutions are obviously superior.

 

[rlhamil]

There are more Teslas on the road in the US at this point than all other EVs combined.

Which is what I was saying: neither numbers that relate to individual purchases and preferences nor the technically superior decides when there are bigger players (companies and countries) in the game. The history of standards is that best makes little difference compared to the politics of a consensus among players.

Not THAT big a deal anyway; adapters exist, and will probably be improved if there's enough demand. And perhaps Tesla charging stations in the US will for some time have two charging cables, one of each connector type.

 

[fritter63]

Which is what I was saying: neither numbers that relate to individual purchases and preferences nor the technically superior decides when there are bigger players (companies and countries) in the game. The history of standards is that best makes little difference compared to the politics of a consensus among players.

Not THAT big a deal anyway; adapters exist, and will probably be improved if there's enough demand. And perhaps Tesla charging stations in the US will for some time have two charging cables, one of each connector type.

We need to take a lesson from the VHS vs Beta wars, and the DVD vs (what was the other standard?) on how the the winner is REALLY determined.

That's right, we need the Pr0n industry to endorse NACS.....

 

[charliemagpie]

In 1984, I opened a vid shop. Beta or VHS ?

Ordering and stocking the shop with more Beta seemed the best decision. At the time I heard a strong case for Beta.

But in the shops, the majority of machines were VHS. Sony had a great VHS player which I bought ex display for $1000. There was nothing close to similar features.

To start with, I ordered 2000 VHS videos and 500 Beta. It didn't take long before it was 100% VHS.

The only determining factor from my vantage point was the availability and superiority of VHS players.

 

[Ogre]

Is MS Excel a “standard”?

Does anyone care? Apple makes their Numbers spreadsheet capable of importing and exporting to Excel because it’s what most people use. It has become a de facto standard for exchanging spreadsheet information even though it is controlled by Microsoft.

 

[Crissa]

Is MS Excel a “standard”?

Does anyone care? Apple makes their Numbers spreadsheet capable of importing and exporting to Excel because it’s what most people use. It has become a de facto standard for exchanging spreadsheet information even though it is controlled by Microsoft.

Excel is also flat worse, having been the downfall of many a business by importing a worm hidden within its scripting...

-Crissa