Mary Barra Living in Cloud Cuckoo Land

[Ogre]

Mary Barra, claiming GM is the “US Leader in EVs” immediately after the interviewer pointed out Tesla had much greater market share.

Musk’s reply here is A+. Genuinely laughed out loud.

 

[BillyGee]

?

 

[Crissa]

At least you know what Biden has to deal with to drag them along. They're like spoiled children.

Spoiled children that'll severely damage the US economy if we don't get them to clean up their rooms.

-Crissa

 

[Ogre]

At least you know what Biden has to deal with to drag them along. They're like spoiled children.

Spoiled children that'll severely damage the US economy if we don't get them to clean up their rooms.

-Crissa

I think Biden is closing the barn door thinking the cows are still inside to be honest.

I’d love to find out otherwise, but I’m a cynical SOB.

 

[Crissa]

I think Biden is closing the barn door thinking the cows are still inside to be honest.

I’d love to find out otherwise, but I’m a cynical SOB.

I don't even know what you're trying to refer to, though. How are we going to get the BBB through the Senate without placating both sides of the Democratic party?

Republicans are too busy killing their constituents to bother with saving potential lives or the economy.

-Crissa

 

[Macgyverfever]

Well, I won't talk about religion, sex, OR politics here, but I'd like to take this moment to say the Cybertruck is GOD DAMN SEXY.. and thats all I'm gonna say.. *whispers 'lets-go-Bran-den thump, thump, thump thump thump'*...

 

[Ogre]

I don't even know what you're trying to refer to, though. How are we going to get the BBB through the Senate without placating both sides of the Democratic party?

Republicans are too busy killing their constituents to bother with saving potential lives or the economy.

-Crissa

We could just leave out the EV subsidies entirely as far as I’m concerned. I can think of a lot of better ways to spend the money.

But I wasn’t trying to poke at Biden at all. I was just referring to the fact that the foot dragging and executional incompetence from US auto makers has put them in a position where recovery is going to be exceptionally difficult. Subsidies won’t make people buy a car that these guys can’t produce.

 

[Dids]

We could just leave out the EV subsidies entirely as far as I’m concerned. I can think of a lot of better ways to spend the money.

But I wasn’t trying to poke at Biden at all. I was just referring to the fact that the foot dragging and executional incompetence from US auto makers has put them in a position where recovery is going to be exceptionally difficult. Subsidies won’t make people buy a car that these guys can’t produce.

Good point, but if true then why oppose the subsidies since no one will claim them. Putting ideologies aside let's approach from real politik.... if scientists are right and climate change is an exisistantial threat than a leader is derelict of his duty if he doesn't address it.
There are a large population that oppose action for financial reasons, let's call them Dinos. Then there is another large population that opposes action on ideological grounds, let's call them Brandons. The Dinos use the Brandons to maintain status quo.
Any path to action has to address the Dino/Brandon nexus or it will fail and be catastrophic, it meanwhile also has to satisfy another large population that wants climate action, let's call them Karens. The Karens demand that the leader give them everything they want or they will look for another leader.
First you have to satisfy the Karens or there will be no action. The subsidies do that.
Next you must drive a wedge between Dino /Brandon. You could try to convince Brandon but they are largely insensible sheep (their motto is WWG1WGA). You could try to convince Dinos, they are motivated by money. You could remove money (tax bad behavior) or add money (subsidize good).
If you tax the Dinos will oppose you and turn to the Brandons and kill the action.. If you suck up to the Dinos and make it appear like you are one of them and you offer them money they might not oppose you and the action can proceed. If you pick the most desperate of the Dinos to suck up to they will have no choice but to go along with you, butter them up, offer them a path to the future. Maybe they will take it... maybe they won't... but they will not oppose your action.
The Brandons love their leaders and many have strong Dino affiliation. If you get one of the Dinos on your side you bring along a ton of Brandons.

 

[Crissa]

Yeah, maybe I'm being insensitive, but I believe in good governance and using facts and spending money.

money doesn't do any damn good sitting around. We're living creatures and while we may disagree on how to spend it - I happen to like nice roads and trails and wild places - it just rubs me the wrong way when we get into this argument to not do anything because reasons.

We can do things and we have an entire ideology that touches nearly all of one party and an annoying amount of the other just convinced we can't.

And I hate that. And we get in these arguments and I just want to scream 'we can do it!' We can go to the Moon and this other thing. We did do that, we can do it more.

-Crissa

PS the 'this other thing' in President Kennedy's was an extension of social services which pulled millions from poverty.

 

[Richard V.]

We could just leave out the EV subsidies entirely as far as I’m concerned. I can think of a lot of better ways to spend the money.

But I wasn’t trying to poke at Biden at all. I was just referring to the fact that the foot dragging and executional incompetence from US auto makers has put them in a position where recovery is going to be exceptionally difficult. Subsidies won’t make people buy a car that these guys can’t produce.

I like this clarification on motivation: Why Biden IS anti-Tesla: follow the money - YouTube

Edit 28th Nov 2021:

I am looking at numbers going up today. I think Sam is being fair and open minded about it all.

 

[Crissa]

I like this clarification on motivation: Why Biden IS anti-Tesla: follow the money - YouTube

No. That's just BS using a politician's name and handwaving and ignoring the other politics involved. None of Biden's proposals have hurt Tesla.

Tesla doesn't employ anywhere as many people, not in swing states, and doesn't grease the wheels to have his speak at their events. They don't even do PR events for the most part, so there's just no way for the President to show up at them.

And while we're in this limbo of getting bills passed,he's busy buttering these others up.

Would I prefer he used a little more stick? Sure, but we don't even know if we can get the carrot, despite all his nice words to the legacy automakers and their workers.

I don't like liars, I don't like needless partisans, and I don't like people abusing authority. But there's one label that absolutely is stopping us from using any carrots or sticks to move EV adoption, and it isn't Biden or his party.

-Crissa

 

[Throwcomputer]

Good point, but if true then why oppose the subsidies since no one will claim them. Putting ideologies aside let's approach from real politik.... if scientists are right and climate change is an exisistantial threat than a leader is derelict of his duty if he doesn't address it.
There are a large population that oppose action for financial reasons, let's call them Dinos. Then there is another large population that opposes action on ideological grounds, let's call them Brandons. The Dinos use the Brandons to maintain status quo.
Any path to action has to address the Dino/Brandon nexus or it will fail and be catastrophic, it meanwhile also has to satisfy another large population that wants climate action, let's call them Karens. The Karens demand that the leader give them everything they want or they will look for another leader.
First you have to satisfy the Karens or there will be no action. The subsidies do that.
Next you must drive a wedge between Dino /Brandon. You could try to convince Brandon but they are largely insensible sheep (their motto is WWG1WGA). You could try to convince Dinos, they are motivated by money. You could remove money (tax bad behavior) or add money (subsidize good).
If you tax the Dinos will oppose you and turn to the Brandons and kill the action.. If you suck up to the Dinos and make it appear like you are one of them and you offer them money they might not oppose you and the action can proceed. If you pick the most desperate of the Dinos to suck up to they will have no choice but to go along with you, butter them up, offer them a path to the future. Maybe they will take it... maybe they won't... but they will not oppose your action.
The Brandons love their leaders and many have strong Dino affiliation. If you get one of the Dinos on your side you bring along a ton of Brandons.

Well crafted and applaud your effort. Unfortunately its pissing in the wind. This only works when the game is played. currently too many would rather burn everything down than share in the responsibility/work/benefits. Lets go reality.

 

[Ogre]

The Brandons love their leaders and many have strong Dino affiliation. If you get one of the Dinos on your side you bring along a ton of Brandons.

I’m not even sure I follow this analogy, but my comment was more about whether it’s the best use of government funds… I realize sometimes political nonsense makes doing the best thing unattainable and the third or fourth best thing the best you can do.

So in that spirit.

There was a time when government subsidies for EVs helped built an industry. We’re past that now though. Now we are well into government subsidies being a form of corporate welfare.

If I were going to handle this pending disaster in the most humane way possible. I would focus on the people affected by this and the infrastructure which will be enjoyed by everyone for years to come. This approach is just going to fatten shareholders wallets and will likely not prevent any corporate failures.

As I said above… likely not possible due to Brandons or Karen’s.

 

[Crissa]

EVs are only 2% of the market right now.

So how can we be past it?

Every dollar spent on the EV tax credit is at least a dollar saved in medical expenses from air pollution.

-Crissa

 

[firsttruck]

We could just leave out the EV subsidies entirely as far as I’m concerned. I can think of a lot of better ways to spend the money.

I think totally agree. No subsidy is better than giving PHEVs $4,500 or $8,500 if union built.