Jailbreak Tesla

[Crissa]

It is 100% stealing. There is absolutely no question or confusion. If you actually need proof beyond common sense look at software licensing. License software for a time period, after that period you can no longer legally use that software. Hardware is totally irrelevant.

That's not how laws, or hardware, work.

https://www.farm-equipment.com/arti...ith-class-action-lawsuit-over-right-to-repair

-Crissa

 

[Crissa]

I disagree. Using jailbroken battery capability, for instance, is akin to my wife buying all-you-can-eat shrimp and me just buying a salad and then eating her shrimp with her. I didn't pay for that capacity.

I mean, it's not, since you're going back to the buffet - which is a different issue than just eating the leftover shrimp on her plate. Because they're already there. On her plate.

-Crissa

 

[TyPope]

I mean, it's not, since you're going back to the buffet - which is a different issue than just eating the leftover shrimp on her plate. Because they're already there. On her plate.

-Crissa

I can see that and there's a part of me that says "I own the car and all the parts of the car" but it's countered by "I didn't pay for that so it doesn't belong to me."

I don't get the morals of the "I'm going to fill my purse from my 'never-ending' chicken wings." crowd. Same goes for the people who grab WAY more sauce than they need for their tacos. They offer those to help flavor your meal, not stock your pantry.

 

[EvilNuff]

That's not how laws, or hardware, work.

https://www.farm-equipment.com/arti...ith-class-action-lawsuit-over-right-to-repair

-Crissa

Right to repair is a totally different instance. Completely unrelated.

 

[ninja6r]

I can see that and there's a part of me that says "I own the car and all the parts of the car" but it's countered by "I didn't pay for that so it doesn't belong to me."

I don't get the morals of the "I'm going to fill my purse from my 'never-ending' chicken wings." crowd. Same goes for the people who grab WAY more sauce than they need for their tacos. They offer those to help flavor your meal, not stock your pantry.

Honestly, it sounds like you're struggling with your own self and possibly, conflicting moral/ethical views of right/wrong within a capitalistic society that puts profit over people.

Please explain how you would go about returning it then. You keep saying you didn't pay for it, but it's in your purchased product, so you did.

I buy a burger in the drive through and when I get home, I see they added free bacon to it. Are you going to return that burger or take the bacon off?

 

[kbolt]

I want to be the person who does whatever the hell they want with what they own. I can't steal something that I own. I bought a laptop that physically had 2 RAM slots.

If i wanted to solder another USB port to it, I should be able to, it's my f-ing motherboard now. Am I explaining this correctly? I feel like I'm going mad, lol.

How about this one. I bought a TV, and that TV came with a remote that has a proprietary screw that holds the batteries. The screwdriver is sold separately. Would you cut the remote you purchased, in order to replace the batteries or would you buy the screwdriver from them? Keep in mind, you own the remote because you bought the tv.

Nothing in my examples is about stealing. I'm pretty bored today, I guess. I need Tesla to get me this truck so I stop checking this site hourly.

It's more like you bought a computer with the standard version of the software to save money and then you stole the premium/enterprise features. If they offer the upgrade then you should pay for the upgrade if you want access to those features.

That part should be black and white.

The grey part is whether this is nickel and diming like BMW making you pay for heated seats. Maybe they are the same, maybe they are different.

 

[TyPope]

Honestly, it sounds like you're struggling with your own self and possibly, conflicting moral/ethical views of right/wrong within a capitalistic society that puts profit over people.

Please explain how you would go about returning it then. You keep saying you didn't pay for it, but it's in your purchased product, so you did.

I buy a burger in the drive through and when I get home, I see they added free bacon to it. Are you going to return that burger or take the bacon off?

To your last, of course not and while I won't steal fist fulls of Taco Bell sauce, if they give it to me in the drivethru, that's their choice.

I know you are thinking Tesla is doing the same thing but they are not. They aren't giving you a ton of battery capacity and assuming you'll only use the lower amount you paid for. They are putting more batteries in the vehicle that you paid for which will probably increase the 'good' lifespan of the battery pack which will save them on potentially having to replace it should it lose some range. If you dig into that excess range that they have saved, you are stealing their buffer zone.

but, to me, if I do something to cheat the system and get something that other people are paying for at no cost, that's stealing. It's akin to stealing cable. I mean, if the cable company is going to send me all the channels I don't pay for, why can't I unscramble the signal and get it all free? I mean, if half the customers did that, the company would have to double the price to maintain the same income... But, that's not your problem.

 

[ninja6r]

To your last, of course not and while I won't steal fist fulls of Taco Bell sauce, if they give it to me in the drivethru, that's their choice.

I know you are thinking Tesla is doing the same thing but they are not. They aren't giving you a ton of battery capacity and assuming you'll only use the lower amount you paid for. They are putting more batteries in the vehicle that you paid for which will probably increase the 'good' lifespan of the battery pack which will save them on potentially having to replace it should it lose some range. If you dig into that excess range that they have saved, you are stealing their buffer zone.

but, to me, if I do something to cheat the system and get something that other people are paying for at no cost, that's stealing. It's akin to stealing cable. I mean, if the cable company is going to send me all the channels I don't pay for, why can't I unscramble the signal and get it all free? I mean, if half the customers did that, the company would have to double the price to maintain the same income... But, that's not your problem.

It's Tesla's choice to add those batteries, as you said. It's also their choice to include hardware for heated seats. I didn't ask and I didn't want it. It's now my car, so I'm going to use it. Exactly like I'd do with the bacon that was added to my burger. I'm going to eat it.

To the software analogy of cable tv, I don't own the physical cable or the box. I also don't pay a monthly subscription to drive my car.

I want to try and highlight a different way of thinking about this. If I can build and run my own OS and remove Tesla's OS, then everything physically in the car should be mine to use. Does that make more sense?

I want to stear away from this "Tesla's locked everything via software" thought. What if you ran your own, government approved, software? Completed open-sourced. Would you see how owning the physical car works now?

 

[ninja6r]

It's more like you bought a computer with the standard version of the software to save money and then you stole the premium/enterprise features. If they offer the upgrade then you should pay for the upgrade if you want access to those features.

That part should be black and white.

Nope, not the same. It's like buying a PC with Windows 10 installed and you want to remove it and run Linux. Like my previous analogy, where the PC maker locked an extra 8gb memory using Windows 10, but by running Linux, you now have access to it. It being the physical hardware.

 

[TyPope]

It's Tesla's choice to add those batteries, as you said. It's also their choice to include hardware for heated seats. I didn't ask and I didn't want it. It's now my car, so I'm going to use it. Exactly like I'd do with the bacon that was added to my burger. I'm going to eat it.

To the software analogy of cable tv, I don't own the physical cable or the box. I also don't pay a monthly subscription to drive my car.

I want to try and highlight a different way of thinking about this. If I can build and run my own OS and remove Tesla's OS, then everything physically in the car should be mine to use. Does that make more sense?

I want to stear away from this "Tesla's locked everything via software" thought. What if you ran your own, government approved, software? Completed open-sourced. Would you see how owning the physical car works now?

You're probably clear with the law and if you aren't making a warranty claim that your battery wore out too fast (because you cheated to get that extra capacity), that would probably be okay, but I won't do it.

 

[EVSport7]

Nope, not the same. It's like buying a PC with Windows 10 installed and you want to remove it and run Linux. Like my previous analogy, where the PC maker locked an extra 8gb memory using Windows 10, but by running Linux, you now have access to it. It being the physical hardware.

I always viewed it like my modded game consoles from back in the day. We improved the heck out of them with the hardware that we purchased (tweaking memory, bigger hdd support, etc).
Once you cross that line and put in a chip, softmod, etc. then you have to realize that you can't play in the stock ecosystem anymore. I feel that this should be similar.
I remember watching videos with people running unsigned code on their old Tesla and losing updates, supercharger access, etc. I think that's fair because Tesla owns all that software and they make the rules, but if you have that car to strictly plug in at home and use around town and you understand you lose software support, warranty coverage etc then I don't see the harm.

Same thing with the heated seats. If the hardware is there and you work within the confines of the software then adding a switch would be fine to use the item that you purchased.

 

[CyberGus]

You do not have carte blanche to "do whatever you want" with your property.

If you bypass the catalytic converter on your car, you've broken the law.
If you shorten the barrel of a shotgun below 16", you've broken the law.
If you hacked the Tesla computer to enable FSD, you've broken the law.

There's obviously lots of corner-cases and grey areas within this subject, and the rules are always changing.


Not intended as legal advice. Consult with your attorney before doing stupid shit.

 

[Crissa]

Right to repair is a totally different instance. Completely unrelated.

Except it's not.

Anyhow, you agreed to get a discount on your car by accepting the User Agreement - and not having all the features in the car active. You're violating your promise by unlocking things.

-Crissa

 

[CyberGus]

Right to repair is a totally different instance. Completely unrelated.

Except it's not.

Bypassing DRM is illegal. Doing it for self-repair is not. I think I see why so many people are confused

 

[EvilNuff]

Except it's not.

Anyhow, you agreed to get a discount on your car by accepting the User Agreement - and not having all the features in the car active. You're violating your promise by unlocking things.

-Crissa

I don't understand why this is so hard for you to understand. They are completely and totally different things. Seriously go ask any lawyer with experience in software. I have, that's my industry. You literally could not be more wrong and yet you just keep with these one liner "nuh uh" ridiculous responses. It's gotten so bad that at this point I am forced to conclude that you are intentionally trolling.