EVs are dead

[JBee]

There have been many evaluations of hydrogen-based fuel cell vehicles over the years. Apart from the volatility of hydrogen, the simple fact is that it takes electricity to produce hydrogen and that hydrogen is used to make electricity to power an otherwise electric drivetrain. So losses are simply compounded over a BEV solution. In order for hydrogren-based fuel cell vehicles to be better than BEVs the source of electricity to produce the hydrogen would have to be better than for BEVs, but at present time it is more likely that BEV electricity could be acquired through renewable resources than hydrogen, and most hydrogen-production methods are quite dirty. It is hard to imagine BMW, Toyota, or anyone really coming up with a hydrogen-based fuel cell vehicle that would be even close to BEVs, and so I cannot believe that it makes any difference, in the short/long run, what these manufacturers say.

Let alone that most hydrogen is made from methane (natural gas) in the first place.

Better off using the methane in a fuel cell straight out without converting it and having to overcome the issues with boiloff etc and energy density and distribution.

Bio-methane from biomass is the only RE that is net CO2 reducing, as releasing bio-methane adds more temperature forcing than CO2, so combusting bio-methane into CO2 results in a 20x reduction.

 

[cbrtrckrsrvd112219]

I thought this was satire when I first read it, but I think they’re trying to be serious. ?



BMW says goodbye to electric cars. It has solved the problem of hydrogen engines and begins a new era

According to a recent report from Information Trends, hydrogen engines are likely to become the future of automobile transportation…


https://lagradaonline.com/en/bmw-hydrogen-engines/

never heard of this site and it seems in Spanish - until it is broadcasted on CNN - Fake News! and it is on CNN - Fake New for sure! #NoPolitics

 

[PilotPete]

that link isn't working for me but the supply chain is a big challenge for hydrogen.

Elon has said there is no future in Hydrogen. It does have some benefits. It can be produced at the service station, shipping is not required. It is a very rapid refill, just like your ICE car. The tanks in your car where it is stored can be every bit as safe as your gas tank, even more. Increasing tank size doesn’t significantly increase weight like a BEV. And most of the downsides of hydrogen are FUD, just like BEVs.

All that being said, there is a huge issue with hydrogen. It takes MORE energy to create hydrogen than it provides. If it provides #kWH of energy, but takes #+X kWH to create it, it’s an overall loss. Far more efficient and less impact on the grid to charge a BEV car than to provide hydrogen for the same number of miles.

Might it become an alternative in the future? Maybe. But at the current projection of progress, battery progress will (continue to) outpace hydrogen production. And when you look at the salvation of the grid (in the US), it is not government programs or investment into infrastructure, it is locally produced electricity, mostly solar. If you can make your residence self-sufficient when it comes to electricity, adding electric cars and charging at home has zero load on the grid. And a SC location that produces it’s own power, or only pulls off the grid at night and stores during the day, also has virtually zero impact.

So, what I’m hearing from BMW, and Toyota, and all the others talking about hydrogen is the following (slightly reworded) announcement.

“We here at (fill in the legacy OEM) realize that we are getting our butts handed to us by some snot-nosed upstart electric car company. We realize that we have waited too long, relying on excessive profits from our ICE vehicles. And we have worried about our what our shareholders would do if we took some of those profits and invested into new factories, so we chose to focus on the short term rather than long term. In fact, we did this for so long, we now realize we have no chance of catching up without putting the entire company at risk. So we are going to chase down a different path that we realize is not as efficient, but we hope that with enough misinformation and propaganda, we can confuse enough of the public to allow us to sell our alternatives, mostly because it‘s just an alternative. Go hydrogen!”

 

[Tiberius]

Hydrogen will work really well when you don't have to store it.
Then your car can be refilled with water ?
Only the small matter of getting the hydrogen to start it

 

[Bartman]

I thought this was satire when I first read it, but I think they’re trying to be serious. ?



BMW says goodbye to electric cars. It has solved the problem of hydrogen engines and begins a new era

According to a recent report from Information Trends, hydrogen engines are likely to become the future of automobile transportation…


https://lagradaonline.com/en/bmw-hydrogen-engines/

Yes, the Hindenburg worked out so well, they figured why not put it in cars.

 

[PilotPete]

Yes, the Hindenburg worked out so well, they figured why not put it in cars.

The Hindenburg explosion wasn't about the hydrogen, it was about the metallic dope they put on the fabric. No, once it started the hydrogen didn't help, but it wasn't the cause. Just as a ICE car contains flammable materials, but they don't spontaneously combust. There are more than enough issues financially getting hydrogen to market.

 

[Bartman]

Think that is a myth…..

https://www.airships.net/hindenburg/disaster/myths/

 

[PilotPete]

Think that is a myth…..

https://www.airships.net/hindenburg/disaster/myths/

Maybe, maybe not? Either way, the doped cloth was flammable, and the aluminum in the dope wasn’t grounded and subject to static buildup.

 

[Crissa]

Hydrogen combustion doesn't need batteries, but... Ugh. Hydrogen seems so not worth it.

-Crissa

 

[ÆCIII]

As others (and Elon also) have said, hydrogen is difficult to contain without leakage. Considering it's the lightest element we know so far, that's not surprising. But that characteristic combined with it being highly flammable is enough to make me want to stay away from it.

I noticed a couple interesting historical tidbits on the Hindenburg:

https://www.history.com/news/the-hindenburg-disaster-9-surprising-facts

Even back then people apparently didn't care about something they couldn't see - until it goes BOOM! ?? Some act like they're still oblivious today too.

- ÆCIII

 

[Crissa]

Helium's in the news recently, too.

https://www.politico.com/newsletter...26/health-cares-rising-helium-fears-00137989#

It's a non-renewable resource.

Anyhow, it's interesting how all these things interact! Helium is hard to store, too.

-Crissa