Off-topic keep moving - M2

[rr6013]

The Mythical $20k BEV

Stole this img off the internet to illustrate exoskelton, structural glazing and next electric design in Tesla lineup - this ain’t it. It needs Hans poly treatment, cyber illumination scheme and structural battery. But it reminds me of a model that I owned 3 versions that changed automotive history.

BMW 1966 1600ti series. Lightweight(then), 4cyl, 4spd, independent 4corner suspension, floating rear differential and 4passenger.
1967 BMW brought this euro trim into the USA in a larger 4cyl 2002ti and 2002tii versions in addition to a straight 2002.

These two img’s, more than any other, point the way to sub $25k BEV for Tesla in my view. The top img embodies todays state of design, the bottom img the last Century highest embodiment and Cybertruck poly design form shape marks entry into tomorrow‘s.

Keep the engineering, ride and handling of the BMW’s 50/50 balance, the larger greenhouse structural glass affords while adding BEV torque-y zip, Tesla minimalism while launching a next level platform to make ride, handling and safety history. – Model 2

 

[DarinCT]

M2 cheaper than Model 3 but what about autopilot. $10K autopilot doesn't jive so it would suggest a subscription model but then what's the carrying cost vs the TCO. The mysterious sub-35K Tesla was a difficult offering to sustain. What would be needed to offer a car at roughly half the price?

While typing this, I'm wondering if Tesla could incorporate a different income stream to subsidize the cost e.g. V2G where Tesla gets the proceeds. Basically a Powerwall on wheels. I'm not a fan of V2G but it wouldn't be my problem.

Obviously, there's the whole autonomous fleet thing but that circles back to autopilot costs. I can only envision the M2 as the robotaxi car but I'm just one perspective.

 

[rr6013]

M2 cheaper than Model 3 but what about autopilot. $10K autopilot doesn't jive so it would suggest a subscription model but then what's the carrying cost vs the TCO. The mysterious sub-35K Tesla was a difficult offering to sustain. What would be needed to offer a car at roughly half the price?

While typing this, I'm wondering if Tesla could incorporate a different income stream to subsidize the cost e.g. V2G where Tesla gets the proceeds. Basically a Powerwall on wheels. I'm not a fan of V2G but it wouldn't be my problem.

Obviously, there's the whole autonomous fleet thing but that circles back to autopilot costs. I can only envision the M2 as the robotaxi car but I'm just one perspective.

Why not a return to form with MSRP priority#1. M2 = starterEV? Maybe a step car in the right direction. A straight urban BEV for sport-y weekends - No computer screen, no autopilot, no FSD, no cruise control just pure fun.

 

[DarinCT]

Why not a return to form with MSRP priority#1. M2 = starterEV? Maybe a step car in the right direction. A straight urban BEV for sport-y weekends - No computer screen, no autopilot, no FSD, no cruise control just pure fun.

My VW days are tingling... a car that you drove??!? Insanity! It makes sense though, rip out all the luxury and automation and integration, just battery management. That feels like a Smart ForTwo car and those were cheap, with multiple definitions. Elon wants safe cars. I wonder what the bare minimum safe car would cost.

 

[Crissa]

Why not a return to form with MSRP priority#1. M2 = starterEV? Maybe a step car in the right direction. A straight urban BEV for sport-y weekends - No computer screen, no autopilot, no FSD, no cruise control just pure fun.

But the computer screen actually reduces the cost. You will always need a ui for charging and status; fewer buttons is cheaper. And cruise control in an EV is not extra cost, it's just software and buttons that you'd have anyhow. It already has all the logic and sensors.

And I don't think Tesla will want to go away from the standard set of Autopilot features which makes Tesla so safe. Get the module cost down even more; it's possible.

-Crissa

 

[CyberMoose]

Why not a return to form with MSRP priority#1. M2 = starterEV? Maybe a step car in the right direction. A straight urban BEV for sport-y weekends - No computer screen, no autopilot, no FSD, no cruise control just pure fun.

I was talking with someone in another thread about the upcoming $25000 Tesla car and how Tesla might be able to reduce costs to make that. I don't think they would get rid of the screen because it can take away so many other parts which reduces costs and speeds up production.

I was thinking stuff more like no FSD/Autopilot, smaller two door vehicle with possibly no frunk storage, just a hood for wiper fluids and maintenance access. Cheaper seats and I don't know if the glass roof is cheaper or more expensive but the cheaper option for the budget car.

The batter I think will be the biggest cost saving. I could see a budget car starting around 100 miles. Tesla was recently selling the model 3 with an option to software lock your range to 93 miles with no way to purchase it back later, this was to allow Canadians the option to make their vehicle cheap enough to qualify for a tax credit. So maybe Tesla feels that 93 miles is the minimum range for an electric car to be viable.

I think all that could probably get a Tesla down to 25,000 and they wouldn't have to have too many options for that car either because if you start adding on more than a couple options, you are already nearing the price of the model 3.

 

[rr6013]

But the computer screen actually reduces the cost. You will always need a ui for charging and status; fewer buttons is cheaper. And cruise control in an EV is not extra cost, it's just software and buttons that you'd have anyhow. It already has all the logic and sensors.

And I don't think Tesla will want to go away from the standard set of Autopilot features which makes Tesla so safe. Get the module cost down even more; it's possible.

-Crissa

Same argument Romans made about doing away with exposed plumbing and sewer systems. Big screens are beautiful. Except the milestone for any technology sufficiently mature is when its advanced to the point it is no longer visible.

So much in a KISS $25k BEV can run without a $3k screen. Doesn’t mean without computer just its sufficiently advance to a point a screen is not necessary.

 

[Crissa]

So much in a KISS $25k BEV can run without a $3k screen. Doesn’t mean without computer just its sufficiently advance to a point a screen is not necessary.

It doesn't cost $3k. You can get tft displays down to $150 retail.

-Crissa

 

[rr6013]

It doesn't cost $3k. You can get tft displays down to $150 retail.

-Crissa

that’s a strawman, Tesla would not put last century display in a car it sells. Elon is simply going to make the display unnecessary.

Think about it. This is about Tesla giving everyone who wants, no reason to contribute to AGW warming. Not at $25k. There’s no excuse.

People buying @ $25k are not dumping a car with a 17” display dashboard. So its not a factor for them, in fact, its an easier buy-in if they don’t feel that they are paying for a computer when they only want a Tesla BEV.

 

[Crissa]

I don't even understand what you're saying. It's a cheap way to get a vivid full color touch display. Many motorcycles are moving to it; that's what Zero, Harley, and Energica are using. Lots of cameras use it.

-Crissa

 

[CyberMoose]

that’s a strawman, Tesla would not put last century display in a car it sells. Elon is simply going to make the display unnecessary.

Think about it. This is about Tesla giving everyone who wants, no reason to contribute to AGW warming. Not at $25k. There’s no excuse.

People buying @ $25k are not dumping a car with a 17” display dashboard. So its not a factor for them, in fact, its an easier buy-in if they don’t feel that they are paying for a computer when they only want a Tesla BEV.

If Tesla gets rid of the display...they need to add another display. Either that or they go back to analog instruments. The center display is cost saving in itself. It doesn't need to have arcade, easter eggs, youtube, netflix, or even maps. Now I'm assuming that with a Tesla, even a cheap one, they'll include maps and still have OTA updates. Other than that, the center display is just a display. It doesn't even need to be 17". I could see even a 13" display being just as effective for a car that isn't intended to have lots of entertainment features.

If you look at most cheap vehicles that are being produced, most have a center display for basic features.

 

[rr6013]

If Tesla gets rid of the display...they need to add another display. Either that or they go back to analog instruments. The center display is cost saving in itself. It doesn't need to have arcade, easter eggs, youtube, netflix, or even maps. Now I'm assuming that with a Tesla, even a cheap one, they'll include maps and still have OTA updates. Other than that, the center display is just a display. It doesn't even need to be 17". I could see even a 13" display being just as effective for a car that isn't intended to have lots of entertainment features.

If you look at most cheap vehicles that are being produced, most have a center display for basic features.

Center Display is mantle piece. Other brands following suit are praying homage to technology hoping the success Tesla has had elevating its status can be theirs as well. They haven’t invested frunk to trunk the amount of R&D in technology as has Tesla.

Its a bold move, for sure. Tesla would switch to stalks, steering control buttons and roller knobs without a display. Its boldest move would be VoIP over dynamic display control. Turn by Turn voice feedback. It’d be a different platform than Tesla has used ever by any carmaker. AI + Robotics integration.

You stand on the probability that its Center Display is Home base and Tesla got there first. It‘s safe. But as SteveJobs warned “if you aren’t disrupting yourself - someone else will”.

 

[rr6013]

I don't even understand what you're saying. It's a cheap way to get a vivid full color touch display. Many motorcycles are moving to it; that's what Zero, Harley, and Energica are using. Lots of cameras use it.

-Crissa

My Toshiba running NeXTSTEP in 1994 featured twisted transistor display it was fine, if a bit narrow on view angle. Maybe that is a non-issue by now. Touching the TFT screen would leave a fingerprint embellishment briefly. It failed one day in one fabulous disassemblement of screen elements like a Sci-Fi movie as the final amplifier section deteriorated.

That UI never made more sense than in that deteriorated state. It taught how over bearing UI elements are and needn’t. Human capacity to recognize missing pixels, outline completion and pattern recognition are phenomenal powers human possess. That UI as it disintegrated dissolved into the background. It advance seemingly the contents of the UI to foreground. It made such a logical impression. That should be how technology performs magic - by disappearing.

Center Display isn’t progress, its human understanding function without depending on a display to show how a vehicle works. Maps is the highest embodiment for in-car display. Blackberry “Traffic” voice application turn by turn was superior, even to this day, were it not shit for brains RIM feeling it was safe.

 

[rr6013]

M2 cheaper than Model 3 but what about autopilot. $10K autopilot doesn't jive so it would suggest a subscription model but then what's the carrying cost vs the TCO. The mysterious sub-35K Tesla was a difficult offering to sustain. What would be needed to offer a car at roughly half the price?

While typing this, I'm wondering if Tesla could incorporate a different income stream to subsidize the cost e.g. V2G where Tesla gets the proceeds. Basically a Powerwall on wheels. I'm not a fan of V2G but it wouldn't be my problem.

Obviously, there's the whole autonomous fleet thing but that circles back to autopilot costs. I can only envision the M2 as the robotaxi car but I'm just one perspective.

M2 isn’t Tesla’s AI-Robotics centerpiece. That’s coming. Its urban, short haul, light and fun. No range intended, technology or luxury embellishment needed. M2 is ice creme nights, Friday night lights, picnic Saturdays and roadtrip Sundays - fun.

M2 fulfills Tesla mission to obsolete ICE and petroleum dependency on GHG warming CO2. Job#1 for Tesla is showing BEVmakers that the path to profitability really is putting a BEV in people’s hands they can enjoy to use.

MS Plaid shows carmakers how they can turn BEVmakers without losing limbic addiction or the customer loyalty to its go-fast brands.

No car was lighter, except POS Pinto, more fun to drive and cheaper thrills per $ than the 1966 BMW 1600ti. Yes it was under-powered but its ambitions and go-fast pretenses made it the most fun. 1972 BMW 2002 & 2002tii while much, much more powerful, capable and just as fun -: were never more thrilling. The lightweight could not be matched of the 1600ti that made it so nimble, such a handler and pleasure.

 

[Crissa]

My Toshiba running NeXTSTEP in 1994...

Yes, I also had a screen in 1994 disassemble. It was an early pen tablet PC.

But today people use those kinds of screens (and connectors) inside their phones and never think about it. Because it's almost thirty years later and manufacturing techniques have advanced.

There needs to be a UI for speed, battery, etc; the cheap way to do this is a little TFT full-color screen. They're on almost all electronics. I can get a 1" touch screen now for less than it costs to buy pretty much any UI elements that go into a typical car. Things get cheap.

-Crissa