Knock off the blockchain Elon

[Crissa]

Nothing Elon has said about Bitcoin is untrue, though.

Except for it being useful at all. ^-^

-Crissa

 

[Riptide]

Nothing Elon has said about Bitcoin is untrue, though.

Except for it being useful at all. ^-^

-Crissa

IANAL, but I am a business person. And I think promoting an investment asset is tricky. Tesla purchased $1.5B of Bitcoin, and just announced they are no longer taking it as form of payment, so now it's just an investment asset for Tesla, one that has recently had a material effect on its earnings.

Elon has already proven he can move markets with a tweet, which is fine until Tesla starts profiting off those tweets when it dumps Bitcoin. I think

 

[Crissa]

With bitcoin dropping, it would be hard to claim in court that Elon was profiting off of it.

-Crissa

 

[Riptide]

With bitcoin dropping, it would be hard to claim in court that Elon was profiting off of it.

-Crissa

Sure, at the moment, that's true. However, past results are no guarantee of future performance - up or down. And as far as Musk moving the market:

Musk announced on 3/24 that Tesla would accept Bitcoin, that day it was at $52,774. A week later it was at $58,918. Did Musk cause that? Who knows? It didn't hurt.

And after Tesla announced it had stopped accepting Bitcoin, it has dropped.

Coincidence? Who knows?

But I would argue that more than anyone else (in business) Musk can move the price of Bitcoin. And my point it, this presents some degree of regulatory risk for both Tesla and Musk.

You might agree, or disagree, which is fine. But I think the risk is there.

 

[HaulingAss]

agreed, it almost like Tesla's motto is a motto and not what he believes. Shrug

he cares more about mars than earth i think.

Huh? Nothing Elon has said or tweeted would lead a rational person to conclude he cares more about Mars than Earth. In fact, he's said the opposite. Elon is doing more to advance the quality of life on Earth than any other human I can think of.

 

[HaulingAss]

Let's not forget that Tesla had a $100M+ gain from Bitcoin in the last quarter.

This alone is enough reason for Elon to not discuss crypto-currencies - he could end up in trouble with the SEC again for stock manipulation. Seriously.

They ran off with their tails between their legs. Elon made it clear that he respects the rule of law but not the SEC.

 

[HaulingAss]

Sure, at the moment, that's true. However, past results are no guarantee of future performance - up or down. And as far as Musk moving the market:

Musk announced on 3/24 that Tesla would accept Bitcoin, that day it was at $52,774. A week later it was at $58,918. Did Musk cause that? Who knows? It didn't hurt.

And after Tesla announced it had stopped accepting Bitcoin, it has dropped.

Coincidence? Who knows?

But I would argue that more than anyone else (in business) Musk can move the price of Bitcoin. And my point it, this presents some degree of regulatory risk for both Tesla and Musk.

You might agree, or disagree, which is fine. But I think the risk is there.

That's a silly analysis because it pretends that legitimate business activities shouldn't affect market prices of other entities. If Ford says they are partnering with Fred's Bank for auto loans, the stock of Fred's Bank goes up. So what.

Stop insinuating things that are false. It's NORMAL for business announcements to be reflected in the market value of things that will benefit from that announcement. This is nothing new and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

 

[Riptide]

They ran off with their tails between their legs. Elon made it clear that he respects the rule of law but not the SEC.

Um, no. That's not what happened. In the "funding secured" debacle, here's what happened - Tesla's and Musk's lawyers ended up in a negotiation to keep them out of court, and to keep Musk out of actual jail for fraud, which resulted in:

• Musk agreeing to have his tweets reviewed by Tesla's in-house counsel;
• Musk was removed from his chairman role at Tesla temporarily, Robin Deholm is still Chairwoman;
• Two new independent directors were appointed to the company's board, and;
• Tesla and Musk paid $20 million each in fines.

This is not running off with their tail between their legs. This was quite serious - it was a legitimate charge of fraud, as Musk didn't have "funding secured" at $420 per share.

$40 million in fines is not nothing, but it was a pretty high price to pay for something that was wrong in the first place, and didn't need to happen at all. Call it an unforced error, because that's what it was.

I'm sure Elon doesn't respect the SEC, but he got lucky on this one - it could have been far worse for him. And he was wrong in the first place.

 

[Newton]

Huh? Nothing Elon has said or tweeted would lead a rational person to conclude he cares more about Mars than Earth. In fact, he's said the opposite. Elon is doing more to advance the quality of life on Earth than any other human I can think of.

Nothing he said or tweeted? bitcoin and cryptos are completely the opposite of teslas motto of progressing sustainable energy.

a HUGE, huge, waste of energy for basically no reason.

Elon's goals are mars. Tesla is a way to get there
sure caring MORE abut mars than earth is an exaggeration ill give you that

 

[Crissa]

Nothing he said or tweeted? bitcoin and cryptos are completely the opposite of teslas motto of progressing sustainable energy.

a HUGE, huge, waste of energy for basically no reason.

Elon's goals are mars. Tesla is a way to get there

...And just because he didn't heed the dangers of bitcoin doesn't mean he doesn't believe in Earth.

-Crissa

 

[Riptide]

That's a silly analysis because it pretends that legitimate business activities shouldn't affect market prices of other entities. If Ford says they are partnering with Fred's Bank for auto loans, the stock of Fred's Bank goes up. So what.

Stop insinuating things that are false. It's NORMAL for business announcements to be reflected in the market value of things that will benefit from that announcement. This is nothing new and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

So the Fred's Bank analogy does not apply, unless someone at Ford did some insider trading.

What I am suggesting is that there is an argument that Musk could be close to being an inside trader with respect to Bitcoin. Yes, because of how his tweets can move the market.

First of all, I don't believe this has happened, necessarily. Did Musk dive into Bitcoin to give Tesla a gain? Maybe. This whole debacle about accepting it then not accepting it a few months later sure looks fishy though. There was zero new information about Bitcoin, or its negative environmental impact, that wasn't available during the first announcement. Which leaves open the question of what really happened here. For me this is an open question.

I will bet anyone a hamburger there have been conversations about this at the SEC.

However, moving forward...

Given that this Bitcoin thing has happened, combined with the "funding secured" debacle, and given Musk's open disdain for the law that the SEC enforces (he has made it personal for them), I think he's on thin ice and needs to be careful. And I'm sure he's got a board and a lawyer telling him the same thing.

Look, I would wager that I've been an actual fan of Elon Musk longer than probably anyone on this forum. I started following Tesla since literally the public announcement of its inception, and had Martin Eberhard's blog on teslamotors.com on my RSS feed. I followed the company very closely, and Eberhard posted a lot. I watched Eberhard fail - do any of you remember the battle over the transmission in the Roadster? Eberhard was on the wrong side of that and Elon was on the right side. Eberhard had to go, but I wasn't too sure about this Musk guy at first but his drive and focus won me over.

Just because I'm a Musk fan, however, doesn't mean I'm going to lie to myself when he makes a mistake.

And I really, really, don't want him to make another SEC related mistake, because the next one will be much harder to fix.

 

[Newton]

...And just because he didn't heed the dangers of bitcoin doesn't mean he doesn't believe in Earth.

-Crissa

yea, i guess saying he cares about mars "more" than earth is a little much

 

[rjo71342]

Elon, for the love of God - knock it off on the bitcoin/dogecoin tweets. Focus your genius on Tesla and Tesla energy and maybe SpaceX.

It is embarrassing that you didn't correlate blockchain mining with energy consumption earlier. You are making unnecessary enemies and tanking TSLA stock.

This is all a big distraction from my CT and saving the planet.

if it is a issue for the planet elon is basically trying to disrupt it to give us and our kids the best possible chance of living so if that means talking bitcoin/doge etc so be it but i seem based on the butt hurt response that you are an investor in tesla and or bitcoin or doge but if you are worried about these short term metrics of a dip then you remind me and many others as a gambler with short term vision and not a long term investor that should not be worried at all about the ups and downs of a day, month or 1-2 years so i use a song for you by bobby mcferrin - don't worry be happy now

 

[Tinker71]

if it is a issue for the planet elon is basically trying to disrupt it to give us and our kids the best possible chance of living so if that means talking bitcoin/doge etc so be it but i seem based on the butt hurt response that you are an investor in tesla and or bitcoin or doge but if you are worried about these short term metrics of a dip then you remind me and many others as a gambler with short term vision and not a long term investor that should not be worried at all about the ups and downs of a day, month or 1-2 years so i use a song for you by bobby mcferrin - don't worry be happy now

Honestly I don't understand the draw behind Crypto currency. I understand it is easy to move , harder to trace, has lower transaction fees, and maybe a hedge against inflation (iff enough people believe in it)

I prefer the full faith and credit of the USA, I have no need to hide my transactions, I don't mind paying my fair share. Our economy is perfectly inefficient. If you cut out enough middlemen eventually the economy will suffer. We might still be stuck in the 2008 depression if the Fed hadn't juiced the economy.

I am jealous of the folks who timed the speculation right, but at the end of the day there will probably be almost as many losers in Crypto as winners. I have no stake in Crypto, I did buy TSLA in 2016 and I am still doing fine. I was an emotional investor, I want big oil to pay for their lies over the last 20 years.

I am really concerned for my kids and grandkids and that is why I want Elon to focus on mass adoption of EVs and clean energy and not Crypto currency.

 

[HaulingAss]

So the Fred's Bank analogy does not apply, unless someone at Ford did some insider trading.

What I am suggesting is that there is an argument that Musk could be close to being an inside trader with respect to Bitcoin. Yes, because of how his tweets can move the market.

First of all, I don't believe this has happened, necessarily. Did Musk dive into Bitcoin to give Tesla a gain? Maybe. This whole debacle about accepting it then not accepting it a few months later sure looks fishy though. There was zero new information about Bitcoin, or its negative environmental impact, that wasn't available during the first announcement. Which leaves open the question of what really happened here. For me this is an open question.

I will bet anyone a hamburger there have been conversations about this at the SEC.

However, moving forward...

Given that this Bitcoin thing has happened, combined with the "funding secured" debacle, and given Musk's open disdain for the law that the SEC enforces (he has made it personal for them), I think he's on thin ice and needs to be careful. And I'm sure he's got a board and a lawyer telling him the same thing.

Look, I would wager that I've been an actual fan of Elon Musk longer than probably anyone on this forum. I started following Tesla since literally the public announcement of its inception, and had Martin Eberhard's blog on teslamotors.com on my RSS feed. I followed the company very closely, and Eberhard posted a lot. I watched Eberhard fail - do any of you remember the battle over the transmission in the Roadster? Eberhard was on the wrong side of that and Elon was on the right side. Eberhard had to go, but I wasn't too sure about this Musk guy at first but his drive and focus won me over.

Just because I'm a Musk fan, however, doesn't mean I'm going to lie to myself when he makes a mistake.

And I really, really, don't want him to make another SEC related mistake, because the next one will be much harder to fix.

That's a bunch of BS FUD. Elon is not an "insider" when it comes to Bitcoin, there's no such thing. It would be like saying someone could be an "insider" for gold. The SEC has a very definitive term of what it means to be an insider and it applies to public companies, not cryptocurrencies (because there is nothing that is non-public about cryptocurrencies).

You are stretching real hard to try to throw shade on Elon but I'm not falling for it. Take your SEC/Elon FUD somewhere else.

This kind of BS is all over the Internet but people here aren't going to fall for it.