Sadly, ignornace is winning.

[Crissa]

LOLLLLLL... yeah Firefighters aren't experts about fighting fires.... narrow knowledge...

Because you don't want to send a non-hazmat team to a hazmat fire, you don't bring a team trained for pallet fires to lead the suppression of a metal fire.

A fire fighter trained for wildfire inclines is different than a fire fighter trained for attic ingress. The techniques that work on one fire don't always translate to another - which is why there are so many different crews, training, and procedures.

Firefighting is a very physical job, so the vast majority of firefighters don't have trained expertise - they have narrow experience.

-Crissa

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

Because you don't want to send a non-hazmat team to a hazmat fire, you don't bring a team trained for pallet fires to lead the suppression of a metal fire.

A fire fighter trained for wildfire inclines is different than a fire fighter trained for attic ingress. The techniques that work on one fire don't always translate to another - which is why there are so many different crews, training, and procedures.

Firefighting is a very physical job, so the vast majority of firefighters don't have trained expertise - they have narrow experience.

-Crissa

I'm sorry and you know this how? I am speaking from 16 years of experience as a firefighter. Your comments seem to show you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

In our department we were trained on all aspects. from structure to rescue (thats where car fires happen to be), and widland. I have been trained in all types. Oh... I forgot... for NFPA FireFighter 1 certification, guess what? Hazmat Ops is required ?

Where do you come off making those comments? You have no basis for this and are totally making things up as you go.

 

[Crissa]

I'm sorry and you know this how? I am speaking from 16 years of experience as a firefighter. Your comments seem to show you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

In our department we were trained on all aspects. from structure to rescue (thats where car fires happen to be), and widland. I have been trained in all types. Oh... I forgot... for NFPA FireFighter 1 certification, guess what? Hazmat Ops is required ?

Where do you come off making those comments? You have no basis for this and are totally making things up as you go.

Well, then what have I said that's wrong, aside from your fallacy or authority? (Since we're doing fallacy education here)

Because it seems like you're using the wrong hose for this argument.

-Crissa

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

Well, then what have I said that's wrong, aside from your fallacy or authority? (Since we're doing fallacy education here)

My authority. I have experience in it... a lot. It's your fallacy based on your posts, lack of knowledge, and stating things that are completely untrue attempting to make yourself look like an authority.

Because it seems like you're using the wrong hose for this argument.

Wrong hose? 1 3/4" line is what is recommended! 1 3/4" is what's standard on more engines for fighting most fires. 2 1/2" lines would rarely be used on auto fires except maybe a semi that is fully involved. 1 3/4" are usually set to 150 gpm (gallons per minute). Your "sprinkler hose" is likely 12 gpm. 3000-8000 gallons required for preventing thermal runaway, your garden hose... if you were lucky would take between 4 and 11 hours. Read the link I posted to you earlier... it explains recommended hose and the copious amount of water required. But of course, you likely didn't read it... claiming it's my fallacy. Maybe it's the IAFC fallacy because , hey, they don't know anything! ?

@Crissa please stop being a know-it-all and posting incorrect information on things that you have no idea about. For once just say, "I said stuff I don't know." You argue about literally everything whether you are wrong or right... and this time you were way... waaaayyy... off the correct side of things.

 

[Crissa]

My authority.

So... you didn't find anything wrong in this conversation other than I hurt your feelings by knowing something and not respecting your false authority.

Gallons per hour isn't the same as putting it in the right spot. You're making the same error that was called out in the video I linked.

The number of gallons is based upon the number of damaged cells aligned with the space that needs to be filled. If the space is filled with water, basically zero gallons are needed. That's why the new solutions use water dams around the vehicle.

I'm sorry that you agree that firefighters need specific certifications to fight specific fires. Weird.

-Crissa

PS, I didn't say 'garden hose'. I said sprinkler. You know, i was thinking screening sprays for between houses or the sorta sprinkling hoses drawn around 'small' wildfires during high fire season.

 

[DumpsterFire]

My authority. I have experience in it... a lot. It's your fallacy based on your posts, lack of knowledge, and stating things that are completely untrue attempting to make yourself look like an authority.



Wrong hose? 1 3/4" line is what is recommended! 1 3/4" is what's standard on more engines for fighting most fires. 2 1/2" lines would rarely be used on auto fires except maybe a semi that is fully involved. 1 3/4" are usually set to 150 gpm (gallons per minute). Your "sprinkler hose" is likely 12 gpm. 3000-8000 gallons required for preventing thermal runaway, your garden hose... if you were lucky would take between 4 and 11 hours. Read the link I posted to you earlier... it explains recommended hose and the copious amount of water required. But of course, you likely didn't read it... claiming it's my fallacy. Maybe it's the IAFC fallacy because , hey, they don't know anything! ?

@Crissa please stop being a know-it-all and posting incorrect information on things that you have no idea about. For once just say, "I said stuff I don't know." You argue about literally everything whether you are wrong or right... and this time you were way... waaaayyy... off the correct side of things.

Just curious, interested to know how many EV fires you fought during your 16 years as a firefighter?

Would love to hear your experiences with them.

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

So... you didn't find anything wrong in this conversation other than I hurt your feelings by knowing something and not respecting your false authority.

False? How is it false?

Feelings hurt? Far from it. I'm just calling you out for pure inaccuracies, and posting a politically charged Youtube video didn't help your case. Go paste other FF training videos on the subject. There are lots of them.

Gallons per hour isn't the same as putting it in the right spot. You're making the same error that was called out in the video I linked.

GPM - Gallons Per Minute - Technical term for water flow.

Error? NOT correct. Make note *every* fire fighting SOP makes note of "copious" amounts of water.

As @CyberGus likes to say... 'You need Jesus"

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

Just curious, interested to know how many EV fires you fought during your 16 years as a firefighter?

Would love to hear your experiences with them.

One. My department is on i70. We have one of the biggest automobile incidents on the country.

We just had one last year that ended up in Federal investigation:

https://www.denver7.com/news/invest...igation-into-fatal-evergreen-tesla-crash-fire

Have trained for it annually since 2016. In fact Tesla brings up some folks to point out things on their cars.

 

[DumpsterFire]

One. My department is on i70. We have one of the biggest automobile incidents on the country.

We just had one last year that ended up in Federal investigation:

https://www.denver7.com/news/invest...igation-into-fatal-evergreen-tesla-crash-fire

Have trained for it annually since 2016. In fact Tesla brings up some folks to point out things on their cars.

Thanks. How long did it take and how many gallons of H2O did you need to extinguish it if you don’t mind me asking?

 

[Crissa]

Feelings hurt? Far from it. I'm just ...

Noted, you're arguing with other firefighters quoted in the news program.

And making up straw man arguments.

Seems like you're hurting. Because there's no reason why you should be defending a stupid decision by a UK fire department.

-Crissa

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

We were on scene for an hour to an hour and a half to 2 hours. That wasn't all water... maybe 30 minutes of water...the rest stabilizing the scene, patient care, and working with Colorado State Patrol. We needed to bring in a water tender to feed the pumper because the pumper only holds 1000 gallons... the Tender holds about 3000. If I had to guess we got it in 4000 gallons.

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

Noted, you're arguing with other firefighters quoted in the news program.

And making up straw man arguments.

Seems like you're hurting. Because there's no reason why you should be defending a stupid decision by a UK fire department.

-Crissa

Ok @Crissa I'm in pain. I'm not going to argue with a politically charged Youtube video. I could care less what the UK does. This is the US. We have protocols and procedures for how we fight fires. Straw man? You mean the recommendations from the IAFC? LOL! I don't think you get it or who they are.

Here @Crissa ... here is my straw man... right from your very back yard:

https://abc7news.com/los-gatos-tesla-fire-model-x-suv/4937651/

From the article:

Tesla is maintaining its battery-powered vehicles are safer than conventional, combustible engine cars and have systems to minimize fires when they occur. Still, the Palo Alto-based automaker has provided detailed guidelines to firefighters how to deal with fires, such as the one that happened Tuesday afternoon in Los Gatos.

The intensity of these battery fires -- and the hours it can take to extinguish them -- are no surprise, even to Tesla.

The electric car maker has posted an emergency guide for first responders on how to handle battery fires. This 2016 manual is current and instructs firefighters to use large amounts of water. The Santa Clara County Fire Department used foam as well.

Hey! Lets not listen to Tesla and their recommendations for fighting EV fires for their vehicles and trains US fire departments...

Strawman...

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

@Crissa here ya go!

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/2016_Model_S_Emergency_Response_Guide_en.pdf

What Tesla the straw man says... on page 23 From our friends Tesla themselves:

USE WATER TO FIGHT A HIGH VOLTAGE BATTERY FIRE. If the battery catches
fire, is exposed to high heat, or is generating heat or gases, use large amounts of
water to cool the battery. It can take between approximately 3,000- 8,000 gallons
(11,356- 30,283 liters) of water, applied directly to the battery, to fully extinguish
and cool down a battery fire; always establish or request additional water supply
early. If water is not immediately available, use CO2, dry chemicals, or another
typical fire-extinguishing agent to fight the fire until water is available.

 

[Crissa]

Noted, @M0unt41nm4n you're still making a straw man argument to defend the decision of a specific UK fire department.

'Cause that's what the thread is about. ?‍

Why do you think I'm arguing against using water?

-Crissa

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

Noted, @M0unt41nm4n you're still making a straw man argument to defend the decision of a specific UK fire department.

'Cause that's what the thread is about. ?‍

-Crissa

I'm not defending the argument of a UK department. I'm defending how EV fires are fought here in the US and you clearly stated that you can fight it with a "sprinkler hose". How is anyone on this forum going to take seriously a video that you post which starts with "The Rightwing Claims that...". You lost it right before anyone had to push play. You made it political instead of factual.

I jumped into this after you made misrepresented "authoritative" claims.

@Crissa How about instead of arguing about things you know nothing about, just be accountable and stop throwing stones. We all are wrong sometimes... its ok to say "Sorry, I was outside of my lane"

BTW, FTR Strawman - "an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument."

It was your argument I was refuting...Not the OPs. You were being offensive about how FFs are narrow. I think there are several FFs in this forum who would take great exception to that. My argument was certainly not misrepresented. It was based on experience and data. If there was a straw man, this would be you. Because you intentionally misrepresented things that were clearly not factual.

Now lets end this... its gone on long enough. If you still want to have an argument, DM me so we can save the others from this drama. I have a Beast I am waiting for and I would rather engage publicly with folks in a positive manner who are not looking for a fight.