Tesla removed from the S&P 500 ESG index

[Crissa]

Changing my words is very convenient for you. I think they call that a strawman... Anyway, you might find it helpful to read up on marxism, it seems you might not know what it is.

I was merely replacing the words with their meanings. It's not convenient at all. A straw man would be if I were not using the meanings of those words as used by those they're being applied to.

Reading about Marxism won't help me understand you at all. Or why you find the concepts of 'being respectful' and 'helping the community' or even 'realizing that discrimination can happen in multiple ways at once' as toxic.

I want to understand you. Not some musty old terminology we clearly don't agree on the meanings of.

Because as it seems right now, you're just grabbing words and saying they're bad. And that's just confusing.

-Crissa

PS, I tried to explain the new Chip and Dale movie to my sister today. She's almost twenty years younger than I am.
I ended up feeling like

 

[JBee]

Again, you're going to have to explain what you're really getting at.

Understanding the injustices faced by American society makes you "woke" by default. And, yet, so many people act like that's a bad thing.

I'm an MBA, and one of the things they taught us in B-school was to avoid both making decisions in ignorance and to avoid analysis paralysis. Its not rocket science, but it does take some practice and judgement. My judgement is that we as a society are not suffering from analysis-paralysis. However, we so have an epidemic of people who are insisting on remaining ignorant in the name of "fighting wokeness". I find it personally embarrassing when my fellow Americans do this.

We, as a nation, should be better than this.

Knowledge is good. If ignorance and analysis paralysis are both hazards. If people would stop putting so much effort into staying ignorant, we could fix some long-standing problems here in the USA.

I can agree with most of your sentiments but they need to be careful not to be motivated by to much generalization and oversimplification, you need some more definition to see clearly.

"Knowledge" isn't universally good. Not by a long shot. So, more knowledge is also not automatically good. Neither is an abundance of knowledge that paralyses us from acting on that knowledge, through the lack of definition.

For example; if your knowledge base stems from propaganda what value does it have? How destructive can it be? You can also know evil things. This is the nature of how wars are motivated and how hate speech transforms into legalized murder.
All in the name of "freedom" to defend against other peoples ideas. How many sides in war have "freedom fighters"?

Humans act on the belief they know what is true.

For knowledge to be useful it also needs understanding. Understanding leads to correct judgement and wisdom, and acting on wisdom to just acts, or justice.
Justice is an act, not a thought, or remembering or knowing something.

Lets dig into the words some more to get from injustice to justice.

(Give me a minute....phone posted to early! Fixed it now! Formatting is hard with copy paste sometimes )


knowledge | \ ˈnä-lij \
Definition of knowledge

noun
- acquaintance with facts, truths, or principles, as from study or investigation; general erudition: knowledge of many things.
- familiarity or conversance, as with a particular subject or branch of learning: A knowledge of accounting was necessary for the job.
- acquaintance or familiarity gained by sight, experience, or report: a knowledge of human nature.
- the fact or state of knowing; the perception of fact or truth; clear and certain mental apprehension.
- awareness, as of a fact or circumstance: He had knowledge of her good fortune.


understanding

noun
- mental process of a person who comprehends; comprehension; personal interpretation: My understanding of the word does not agree with yours.
- intellectual faculties; intelligence; mind: a quick understanding.
- superior power of discernment; enlightened intelligence: With her keen understanding she should have become a leader.
- knowledge of or familiarity with a particular thing; skill in dealing with or handling something: an understanding of accounting practice.
- a state of cooperative or mutually tolerant relations between people: To him, understanding and goodwill were the supreme virtues.

adjective
characterized by understanding; prompted by, based on, or demonstrating comprehension, intelligence, discernment, empathy, or the like: an understanding attitude.

wisdom

noun
- the quality or state of being wise; knowledge of what is true or right coupled with just judgment as to action; sagacity, discernment, or insight.
- scholarly knowledge or learning:the wisdom of the schools.
- wise sayings or teachings; precepts.
- a wise act or saying.



justice
[ juhs-tis ]SHOW IPA


noun
- the quality of being just; righteousness, equitableness, or moral rightness: to uphold the justice of a cause.
- rightfulness or lawfulness, as of a claim or title; justness of ground or reason: to complain with justice.
- the moral principle determining just conduct.
- conformity to this principle, as manifested in conduct; just conduct, dealing, or treatment: Victims of rape and sexual assault have the right to the evidence they need to seek justice.
- just treatment of all members of society with regard to a specified public issue, including equitable distribution of resources and participation in decision-making (usually used in combination):
- the administering of deserved punishment or reward.


(In fact there are various justices as well if you're interested: distributive, procedural, retributive and restorative.)

All of this justice has an actionable outcome. That means; no action = no justice.

Another example; If you go through the court process, understanding of the knowledge (facts) results in a judicial "wisdom" of the case, that results in justice that is passed down in a form a court order, that compels the parties to act in certain ways. (pay restitution, go to jail, hand back your license etc)

If I see a crime being committed against another person and do nothing about stopping it then that is "injustice". But not knowing that a crime is being committed, by itself, is not an injustice.

 

[Alan]

We really need some cybertruck news. These threads are going to sink to arguing about religion next.

 

[JBee]

We really need some cybertruck news. These threads are going to sink to arguing about religion next.

Forums are for people to exchange ideas?

There are plenty of threads that deal with other topics. No one is forced to participate or read certain threads that might be deemed "controversial'.

definition of forum

noun, plural fo·rums, fo·ra [fawr-uh, fohr-uh].
- the marketplace or public square of an ancient Roman city, the center of judicial and business affairs and a place of assembly for the people.
- a court or tribunal:the forum of public opinion.
- an assembly, meeting place, television program, etc., for the discussion of questions of public interest.
- Also called online forum, internet forum, web forum . message board.
- the Forum, the forum in the ancient city of Rome.

 

[CyberGus]

EV Marxism

 

[CyberGus]

We really need some cybertruck news. These threads are going to sink to arguing about religion next.

Y'all need Jesus

 

[Crissa]

Yeah, when we're using different meanings for words, it gets... Difficult to communicate. This is why I was editing in what I was reading from the sentences... Hopefully, so you could see what I was seeing, and why I was so confused.

Fair enough. Forum discussions can be frustrating due to inherent limitations of the platform. Also, political discourse (in a general sense) is subject to constant rebranding of words so as to manipulate the listener to one side or the other.

If woke means helping the community, being respectful, or realizing discrimination happens in multiple ways, then yes I agree with it. Such a description gives me a mental image of a very nice friendly Mr. Rogers neighborhood. Delightful.

It's not really Mr Rogers, as Luke42 pointed out earlier; https://www.cybertruckownersclub.co...d-from-the-s-p-500-esg-index.5197/post-102662

It's from the African-American Vernacular, 'to become aware'. To wake up to injustice. It's good to wake up, in that connotation, but it's also a burden: When you're sleepwalking, you're not bothered by it, either.

There's a hilarious TV show called 'Woke' written by an African-American crew. It's on Hulu right now, and it explains it in the first episode. https://www.hulu.com/series/woke-034909c6-8c46-4cad-8d0d-062574a9e5f1

How is equality of outcome to be achieved? Through government force, of course. It is collectivist in the sense that it defines people not as individuals, but as members of a given class/group. It justifies and calls for a strong, ever present state to mandate the flattening of the bell curve of success.

I... Don't want to touch that. I don't think I can convince you that's not what it means, but it certainly isn't at all what anyone on the left means by it.

Not even the maxim, "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" meant that everyone would get the same thing. It was supposed to mean those who had talent should use it; and those with extra needs should get extra support. It didn't mean people shouldn't be rewarded for those skills!

In fact, two hundred years ago when it was coined (Marx didn't invent it), what it specifically meant was getting paid the same for the same work. So if Joe lifted ten boxes and Jane lifted ten boxes, they'd get paid for ten boxes. But at the time - and until just fifty years ago - it was commonplace for wages to be different, even if output wasn't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_...h_according_to_his_needs#Origin_of_the_phrase

Intersectionality also encourages division, hatred, and racial tensions; how can it not?

Ahh... The question that makes me think is, 'how can it at all'?

Intersectionality was coined when a woman was trying to describe the discrimination in the 'integrated' General Motors. They lost the case, because the judge decided that "well, both women and black men can get hired, so there's no discrimination." But the thing was, women could only get hired into the secretarial pool. Only white women. And black men could get hired onto the factory floor. But only as unskilled labor. Black women couldn't get hired at all!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality#Historical_background

Intersectionality means the intersection of being both black and women means a black woman faces different discrimination than both non-black women and black men do, while also suffering the some of the same.

So honestly, I am baffled what you think it means.

...when the oppressed get special privileges, do we not find that the list of oppressed is ever growing? When individuals are placed into a group and defined as oppressors, why should the oppressed not hate them?

If they're oppressed, won't the oppressed hate their oppressors anyhow? The bullied isn't going to love the bully, no matter how you hide it.

That you, personally, are unaware of someone else's troubles doesn't mean those troubles don't exist. And what does it bother you that you find out that there are people with troubles?

Like, yeah, kids with alopecia universalis exist. What skin off your nose is it to realize they suffer discrimination, bullying, and whatnot?

I don't even understand what 'special privileges' you might be referring to. A scarf isn't really a 'special privilege' for a kid with alopecia, it's a necessary adaption to even be in the same cold or sun that kids with hair are. So what's the special privilege to be upset about?

And to tie that to marxism... Karl Marx called for the violent overthrow of existing value structures and...

Yeah. Well, he lived in the world of the Magdalene nunneries, robber-barons with their factory script, monarchies and dynasties. It just doesn't seem relevant to speak of today.

I'm more interested in what motivates you, what meanings you attached to those words... And to hope others would examine why people might have attached negative connotations to them.

-Crissa

 

[JBee]

Ah discourse!

 

[CybertruckAgent]

Eliminating carbon is literally part of their mission.

Apparently Tesla is being punished because they were low-carbon from go so they don’t have a detailed list of places where they can reduce carbon.

Clearly and unequivocally Tesla is being punished for political reasons. The long knifes are out.

 

[charliemagpie]

I'm buying in 15 minutes... likely around $660

I only care about the price in 5 years time.

 

[Crissa]

Clearly and unequivocally Tesla is being punished for political reasons. The long knifes are out.

What would those reasons be? How would they? Who did the punishing? And when did these occur?

A CEO getting needled or negative stories coming out about an exec are not 'political'.

-Crissa

 

[Cybertruckee]

Clearly and unequivocally Tesla is being punished for political reasons. The long knifes are out.

Maybe you can advice Elon not to play politics.

Or going to war with anybody who dis-agrees with him.

Unlike his employees or officers who were simply resigning in exasperation, some of these people have voices and influences too.

Biden, Pelosi, the Democratic Party... are all ignoring him, yeah, for the narcissistic, that could be called punishment..

As an old adage: Don't be throwing stones when you're living in a glasshouse, whorehouse (or whoreplane) or a wilting snowflake.

 

[Rozonoe]

I wouldn't normally agree to conspiratory thinking, but it seems so.

-Crissa

I think Elon should close it F...g mouth & end the Twitter deal, which is causing him & shareholders to have extraordinary pressure from from politician, rival legacy auto & everybody else that hates Tesla & us, the followers!

 

[Cybertruck Hawaii]

Never put all your eggs in one basket still stands today no matter how good a stocks future may seem. Any investment that relies on positive speculation is not going upward in a straight linear line. This allows an investor to buy only on the dips.

 

[Cybertruckee]

Never put all your eggs in one basket still stands today no matter how good a stocks future may seem. Any investment that relies on positive speculation is not going upward in a straight linear line. This allows an investor to buy only on the dips.

@ZARDOZ - read and learn.