FSD Transfer Confusion.

[PK3]

What is actually missing is the reality that there is 2 ways of get FSD and that creates ambiguity.

1) Owner buys FSD when they buy the car, this essentially is part of the car and stays with the car for any sale. The only entity that can remove it is Tesla, they need to own the car (purchase the used car) then they can add/remove FSD at their discretion. I don't understand why Zack/Jessie said it does not transfer, it should if purchased at point of sale and should stay with the Model X however it keeps it old FSD tag and it might need the hardware update to be current, the new owner is not entitled to free updates that the original may or may not have had available.

2) Purchase of FSD after point of sale. This is the unknown, as you have an option to buy FSD from your Tesla account that gets associated to a car you own. I think the current understanding is this attaches to the car and behaves like it was purchased as part of the car and treated the same as #1 above. However there are potential legal arguments that the user purchased a license to that feature and associated it with the car and is not tied to the car but the Tesla user account.

Whether #2 transfers with the car or not is not clear, if you purchase a lifetime subscription to something say like XM radio tied to a car reciever and sell the car, does the new owner get lifetime subscription or can you transfer it? This hasn't yet been litigated well.

 

[Crissa]

#2 attaches to the car and sticks with it on resale. This is how performance Tesla's get their newer feature.

Zac and Jesse want FSD to be for the lifetime of the owner, not the car. But FSD is an upgrade path: a promise to upgrade your car with the software (and some cases hardware) as they develop FSD. And it's only for the lifetime of the vehicle.

-Crissa

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

If you leased a car with FSD, you never paid the full, upfront cost.

And Sparky ought to be eligible for a camera upgrade. https://www.tesla.com/support/full-self-driving-computer

-Crissa

Sparky would need more than just cameras, but the MX only had, I think, 3 cameras, so they would have to do body work to add cameras. It is basically unrealistic from Tesla's point of view. That doesn't change their position in terms of liability. Their best position for Sparky is still to provide transferability of the FSD 'license' with Zach or guarantee that the FSD goes with, and will remain with, the car.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

What is actually missing is the reality that there is 2 ways of get FSD and that creates ambiguity.

1) Owner buys FSD when they buy the car, this essentially is part of the car and stays with the car for any sale. The only entity that can remove it is Tesla, they need to own the car (purchase the used car) then they can add/remove FSD at their discretion. I don't understand why Zack/Jessie said it does not transfer, it should if purchased at point of sale and should stay with the Model X however it keeps it old FSD tag and it might need the hardware update to be current, the new owner is not entitled to free updates that the original may or may not have had available.

2) Purchase of FSD after point of sale. This is the unknown, as you have an option to buy FSD from your Tesla account that gets associated to a car you own. I think the current understanding is this attaches to the car and behaves like it was purchased as part of the car and treated the same as #1 above. However there are potential legal arguments that the user purchased a license to that feature and associated it with the car and is not tied to the car but the Tesla user account.

Whether #2 transfers with the car or not is not clear, if you purchase a lifetime subscription to something say like XM radio tied to a car reciever and sell the car, does the new owner get lifetime subscription or can you transfer it? This hasn't yet been litigated well.

Regarding your first point, if FSD is with the car then Tesla is obligated to update the car's HW/SW the same as any other FSD car regardless of who owns it. That is one problem with the FSD as part-of-the-car policy.

I am1 sorry if I am playing a broken record on all of this but I am one of the many who bought into the promise that FSD would be available during the time I own my Model 3, and possibly look to lose out with this policy. I would very gladly join a class action suit if Tesla doesn't solve this problem equitably to owners.

 

[Crissa]

Sparky would need more than just cameras, but the MX only had, I think, 3 cameras, so they would have to do body work to add cameras. It is basically unrealistic from Tesla's point of view. That doesn't change their position in terms of liability. Their best position for Sparky is still to provide transferability of the FSD 'license' with Zach or guarantee that the FSD goes with, and will remain with, the car.

Yes, but it's eligible for an upgrade.

-Crissa

 

[charliemagpie]

Interesting. I think maybe this is the reason for the imbroglio :

One day FSD may be worth (as per Elon) $100,000. Because it will generate income as a Robotaxi. There may even be a yearly fee.

If we purchase FSD now, I understand, when live, it can be added to the Robotaxi network and make money.

SO, once Robotaxi is operational, only new $100,000 FSD's , AND existing FSD can join the Robotaxi network.

There 'will' be a cheaper personal use only FSD and this may still be close to the price we pay today... but it can't be added to the Robotaxi network.

Restricting current FSD transfers, or perhaps setting a use by date, ensures current FSD's will be over time, phased out of the network.

 

[Ogre]

If you leased a car with FSD, you never paid the full, upfront cost.

No, but you’ve paid something like $120/ month for 3 years for a feature which was extremely disappointing.

Not necessarily a legal problem, but a pretty big black mark on an overwhelmingly good product.

Though… Tesla’s lease policies are mostly pretty crap regardless. No buyback at the end for Model 3/ Model Y, plus very low estimated residual value means people end up paying a lot to lease a car which they can’t buy out. Then Tesla cashes in when the residual is much higher than estimates. Not necessarily planned this way by Tesla, but that is the result.

Moral of this story is: Don’t lease a Tesla, it’s a bad deal all around!

Also, if you do lease and really want FSD, use the subscription version you can cancel.

 

[Crissa]

Ogre, that doesn't match my experience seeing leasing prices.

-Crissa

 

[PK3]

I did not like the Tesla Lease options either, I think the plan was for Tesla to turn all the lease returns into robo taxis which is why they did not allow a buyout. It allowed Tesla to build up a fleet of robo-taxis on the cheap, people pay the big initial depreciation and they got a bit fleet of used cars to use but robo taxis are taking longer then they expected. I think they are likely making money now because the cars are worth more then the residual value of the lease, especially in this market. I would still avoid any lease that does not allow a buyout at the end.

I still worried about FSD impact on Tesla their are potential legal issues, if its really tied to the car and it is never delivered at some point they could face a class action lawsuit.

Every totaled Tesla with FSD never received what they paid for, granted the insurance pays out the FSD cost but at some point I could see a lawsuit where people want refunds for something they never got. This will be more when Sparky and such reach end of normal life, but In the past when it was under $5k it not that big a deal but now when its $12K+ its starts adding up and the more likely someone might try for a refund if car is lost before it materializes.

 

[Ogre]

I would still avoid any lease…

You can just leave it there.

Leases are generally a bad deal. There are some reasons why they might make sense for a person, but in particular in a time of inflation, a lease is incredibly bad. There are situations where leasing makes sense, but for a personal vehicle you are paying a big premium.

I know some people use a lease to “buy” a car which is out of their price-range, but it’s a bad financial choice.

 

[Crissa]

The early Tesla leases were actually better than financing. So there's that, but yeah.

-Crissa

 

[firsttruck]

.....
Every totaled Tesla with FSD never received what they paid for, granted the insurance pays out the FSD cost ....

Insurance reimbursing full current price of FSD on totaled Teslas that had FSD is not universally true.
I do not know the details but I have seen complains about this quite often.
It has something to do with many insurance policies consider software differently than the totaled metal hunk.

If you have FSD or planning to buy FSD, make sure to check the details of your insurance policy.

 

[Ogre]

Insurance reimbursing full current price of FSD on totaled Teslas that had FSD is not universally true.
I do not know the details but I have seen complains about this quite often.
It has something to do with many insurance policies consider software differently than the totaled metal hunk.

If you have FSD or planning to buy FSD, make sure to check the details of your insurance policy.

Looks like Tesla insurance is coming to Oregon before I get FSD regardless so unlikely to be a problem.

Seems to me weird terms like this will drive a fair bit of business to Tesla insurance. Why even leave it up to doubt what is covered?

 

[firsttruck]

Looks like Tesla insurance is coming to Oregon before I get FSD regardless so unlikely to be a problem.

Seems to me weird terms like this will drive a fair bit of business to Tesla insurance. Why even leave it up to doubt what is covered?

Yeah, I hope Tesla insurance reduces costs.

Even with Tesla insurance I would read policy very carefully & ask specific questions.

 

[Ogre]

Yeah, I hope Tesla insurance reduces costs.

Even with Tesla insurance I would read policy very carefully & ask specific questions.

LOL

This is Tesla, insurance will likely be purchased through the app on the phone. There might be an FAQ. Good luck chasing a person down to ask questions to.