Ford EV will gain access to Tesla Superchargers and come with standard NACS ports starting 2025!

[Greshnab]

this line of thinking begs a question: what did Tesla need of Ford

it’s unreasonable to think this deal was put altruism/charity by Tesla. that would never stand scrutiny by the marker

one could take the view that what Tesla got was a pure revenue-per-charge play, but that seems anemic. Tesla’s stated it would seek only minimal revenue margin from these deals (eg 10%)

While it’s possible that was the sun of Tesla’s motivations, I wouldn’t bet on it. That’s a pure “get” and limited at that.

Beyond “get,” I’d expect there was also some “need” more deeply structured here

I know that will offend the senses of those who appear to believe Tesla is needless. But those folks are left then saying things like “why would Tesla do this!?”

Well, they did. What should that tell the reasonable

they NEED nothing.. they get a little cash in their pocket to build out their lines faster.. keep in mind that you ONLY get to a tesla charger when the app points you there.. based on a search there is NOTHING saying tesla can't reserve a set percentage of all free pumps for tesla's ONLY... ensuring the tesla owners would almost always have one free head at every charger...

also keep in mind that tesla's stated goal is to reduce the global demand for fossil fuels .. if sharing their charging network reduces global demand for electric vehicles they will do so.. not to make money but to achieve their goal of reducing the need for fossil fuels..

 

[cvalue13]

they NEED nothing

glad you were in the boardroom for this one and reporting direct from the scene!

 

[kev12345]

In any case, I'd be interested in how existing Tesla owners with CT reservations feel about this important announcement and how it might impact them.

I feel way more comfortable buying an EV other than a tesla now. If ford can sell the lightning cheaper than the cybertruck I’ll go for it.

 

[Crissa]

I feel way more comfortable buying an EV other than a tesla now. If ford can sell the lightning cheaper than the cybertruck I’ll go for it.

Yeah. Though, they need to make a compelling product. The Lightning is too big for my needs. The Cybertruck does a few things to make that a reasonable stretch, same for the Silverado EV, but maybe not?

We'll see what comes. But this means that Tesla is no longer an island. And that's good. More cars means more impetus to have more charging stations. The Supercharger network pays for itself now.

-Crissa

 

[Old Pro]

There's a relatively new Tesla Charging Station in 92131. My son was in the area of the station and witness one Tesla owner cut the line to charge his vehicle. There was quite an argument from one of the other drivers who was in line to the "line jumper". I wonder if non-Tesla owners who act up at the Tesla Charging stations will get on a "no fly" list if they are jerks?!

 

[HaulingAss]

There's a relatively new Tesla Charging Station in 92131. My son was in the area of the station and witness one Tesla owner cut the line to charge his vehicle. There was quite an argument from one of the other drivers who was in line to the "line jumper". I wonder if non-Tesla owners who act up at the Tesla Charging stations will get on a "no fly" list if they are jerks?!

Tesla is not going to treat bad behavior differently, depending upon whether they bought a Ford or a Tesla, it's not in their corporate DNA to make discriminatory policies. Sure, Ford owners will have to pay more because you don't get something for nothing, but, no, Tesla will not tolerate bad behavior from Tesla owners more than they will from non-owners.

In general, I think people worry too much about lines at Superchargers. The media has attempted to create fear and doubt about being able to charge an EV by amplifying any tempory Supercharger shortages during peak holiday usage and peak fleet growth periods to dissuade people from going electric. Waiting more than 5 minutes (as I commonly did at discount gas stations) is quite rare as a percentage of all Supercharging usage and Supercharging is quite rare as a percentage of all charging which is mostly done at home.

Most people have trouble wrapping their heads around what it's like to have a "gas station" in their driveway and not being dependent upon remote refueling. But the media will continue to drum up fear and doubt about Supercharger availability and any conflict that involves Supercharging, pitting people against people and making them afraid to go electric. What EV owner's can do if they find themselves in such a situation is to ignore the brand of car one has chosen and treat everyone with dignity and respect while showing grace and patience. Life is too short to fight over such silly things.

 

[HaulingAss]

I feel way more comfortable buying an EV other than a tesla now. If ford can sell the lightning cheaper than the cybertruck I’ll go for it.

This deal does nothing to fix the fact that Ford cannot manufacture the Lightning at a price that can accomodate mass market truck sales. That's why they lose 10's of thousands of dollars on every one they decide to build, and even with those losses, the price is still too high to sell many of them.

Thinking the F-150 can compete with the Cybertruck in terms of volume sales overlooks just how superior the Cybertruck will be. Even if they are at the same price points, the value is simply not there. The Ford/Tesla charging deal is Farley admitting this. He wouldn't have caved to Tesla's charging standard if he thought the products were competitive. This deal will help Ford sell more EV's but they won't cut into sales of Tesla, they will feed off people moving from ICE to EV.

Elon knows this or he wouldn't have done the deal. It's a real power move, a smackdown to the very notion that Ford EV's are real competition. They never have been and this deal won't change that. ICE is the competition and always has been.

 

[firsttruck]

There's a relatively new Tesla Charging Station in 92131. My son was in the area of the station and witness one Tesla owner cut the line to charge his vehicle. There was quite an argument from one of the other drivers who was in line to the "line jumper". I wonder if non-Tesla owners who act up at the Tesla Charging stations will get on a "no fly" list if they are jerks?!

Tesla can control the line when it wants to.

Tesla knows what each charger is doing (active charge, connected idle, available) and Tesla knows the identification of each vehicle that connects.
.
Tesla could make charging by appointment only and assign charger handle via the Tesla app, Ford app, or other authorized app (by guess is VW, Hyundai/Kia will sign up next. But not GM, "the leader that matters", would rather die first).

Just because it is appointment only does not mean times have to be long or excessive.
Could be just 2-3 minutes before arrival but an appointment could always be required.

Somebody connects to charger handle they were not assigned to they get no juice and if they don't disconnect after a couple minutes they get charged idle fees.

 

[AlDente]

There's a relatively new Tesla Charging Station in 92131. My son was in the area of the station and witness one Tesla owner cut the line to charge his vehicle. There was quite an argument from one of the other drivers who was in line to the "line jumper". I wonder if non-Tesla owners who act up at the Tesla Charging stations will get on a "no fly" list if they are jerks?!

That's So Cal for you. In my over 2 years of driving the Model Y I have only experienced 1 full Supercharger location with 2 Tesla's waiting. That was a 16 Charger near a popular restaurant and I simply re-routed to another Supercharger location 12 miles away. California has the best EV charger network in the country (world). We also have the most EV's and it's usually stupid municipal permitting processes that make Supercharger expansion difficult. The remaining gaps are in certain popular coastal communities mainly in the dude state (So Cal) which as Northern Californians know, is really another state.

 

[SolarWizard]

There's a relatively new Tesla Charging Station in 92131. My son was in the area of the station and witness one Tesla owner cut the line to charge his vehicle. There was quite an argument from one of the other drivers who was in line to the "line jumper". I wonder if non-Tesla owners who act up at the Tesla Charging stations will get on a "no fly" list if they are jerks?!

Fun fact my house in SD is in Scripps Ranch

whatever rule(s) eventually get put into place should apply to all users, not some.

 

[Old Pro]

Fun fact my house in SD is in Scripps Ranch

whatever rule(s) eventually get put into place should apply to all users, not some.

There are no canals in Scripps Ranch that I am aware of. Bob C. Scripps Ranch Old Pro's

 

[cvalue13]

This deal does nothing to fix the fact that Ford cannot manufacture the Lightning at a price that can accomodate mass market truck sales. That's why they lose 10's of thousands of dollars on every one they decide to build, and even with those losses, the price is still too high to sell many of them.

you’re like a broken, misleading, record with this

this tired quip that is trotted out every third post makes as much sense as saying “Ford has lost money on every Super Bowl advertisement it’s ever paid for.”

every “Lightning” that Ford has made, since 1993, has been a loss-leader product for all the standard loss-leader reasons, and to all the standard loss-leader benefits - which have been valuable beyond unit margins.

Let Ford product it’s first-ever BEV platform pickup truck manufactured for volume and profit which won’t occur until 2025 and then see where the chips might fall.

 

[kev12345]

This deal does nothing to fix the fact that Ford cannot manufacture the Lightning at a price that can accomodate mass market truck sales. That's why they lose 10's of thousands of dollars on every one they decide to build, and even with those losses, the price is still too high to sell many of them.

Thinking the F-150 can compete with the Cybertruck in terms of volume sales overlooks just how superior the Cybertruck will be. Even if they are at the same price points, the value is simply not there. The Ford/Tesla charging deal is Farley admitting this. He wouldn't have caved to Tesla's charging standard if he thought the products were competitive. This deal will help Ford sell more EV's but they won't cut into sales of Tesla, they will feed off people moving from ICE to EV.

Elon knows this or he wouldn't have done the deal. It's a real power move, a smackdown to the very notion that Ford EV's are real competition. They never have been and this deal won't change that. ICE is the competition and always has been.

nah. ford will be competitive on the 2nd gen purpose built lighting. this deal was made because they're paying attention to their customers complaints, namely CCS fast charging. ford could build the worlds greatest EV but its all for nothing if you can't charge the thing on the road.

many potential buyers opted out of their lightning purchase solely because of the ongoing CCS charging issues.

 

[HaulingAss]

nah. ford will be competitive on the 2nd gen purpose built lighting. this deal was made because they're paying attention to their customers complaints, namely CCS fast charging. ford could build the worlds greatest EV but its all for nothing if you can't charge the thing on the road.

many potential buyers opted out of their lightning purchase solely because of the ongoing CCS charging issues.

Yes, it fixes the charging and that was a real problem. A Ford EV still won't have as short of Supercharger stops as a comparable Tesla (due to battery thermal considerations and the higher electrical consumption per mile), but it will probably be more than adequate, and the reliability of the new chargers will be more than welcome.

But my main point was that it doesn't address the high cost of Ford EV's (which is completely disguised by the fact that Ford sells them in low volumes at a huge loss). It's not clear how you think Ford becomes competitive in their second generation EV's because there is a huge gulf of a gap to make up, much bigger than I think you realize.

How do you think Ford suddenly becomes competitive when they lose a huge amount of money on every EV currently? Incremental cost improvements of one generation will not come close to closing the gap.

Are you saying Ford has the resources to sell EV's in high volume while losing over $5K on every one? Or do you think Ford will be able to sell their next gen EV's profitably in high volumes? Because I don't even see how that's even something they can dream of.

Tesla and other EV makers are not standing still either, Ford would have to improve the amount of value they can offer for the dollar at something like 6X-8X the rate Tesla is improving in order to catch them in one generation but I think they might be able to just about match Tesla's rate of improvement in terms of value offered and that is only due to the fact that Ford's first generation EV's were so expensive to build and I know Ford is trying to minimize that as much as possible. It's easier to decrease the cost structure of manufacturing/design/sales/distribution when there is so much room for improvement, but then incremental improvements become increasingly more difficult.

Simply matching Tesla's rate of improvement doesn't get Ford to where they need to be in order to offer the kind of value Tesla can, at least not in a sustainable manner. Losing money on every vehicle is not sustainable in high volumes.

 

[kev12345]

Yes, it fixes the charging and that was a real problem. A Ford EV still won't have as short of Supercharger stops as a comparable Tesla (due to battery thermal considerations and the higher electrical consumption per mile), but it will probably be more than adequate, and the reliability of the new chargers will be more than welcome.

But my main point was that it doesn't address the high cost of Ford EV's (which is completely disguised by the fact that Ford sells them in low volumes at a huge loss). It's not clear how you think Ford becomes competitive in their second generation EV's because there is a huge gulf of a gap to make up, much bigger than I think you realize.

How do you think Ford suddenly becomes competitive when they lose a huge amount of money on every EV currently? Incremental cost improvements of one generation will not come close to closing the gap.

Are you saying Ford has the resources to sell EV's in high volume while losing over $5K on every one? Or do you think Ford will be able to sell their next gen EV's profitably in high volumes? Because I don't even see how that's even something they can dream of.

Tesla and other EV makers are not standing still either, Ford would have to improve the amount of value they can offer for the dollar at something like 6X-8X the rate Tesla is improving in order to catch them in one generation but I think they might be able to just about match Tesla's rate of improvement in terms of value offered and that is only due to the fact that Ford's first generation EV's were so expensive to build and I know Ford is trying to minimize that as much as possible. It's easier to decrease the cost structure of manufacturing/design/sales/distribution when there is so much room for improvement, but then incremental improvements become increasingly more difficult.

Simply matching Tesla's rate of improvement doesn't get Ford to where they need to be in order to offer the kind of value Tesla can, at least not in a sustainable manner. Losing money on every vehicle is not sustainable in high volumes.

I have no idea how much money they lose per EV now but I would imagine all the profit they make on gas F150 platinums and lariats will help smooth out their EV transition. do you think they're going to let Tesla take the ev truck market? I don't think so.