Anti-EV idiocy

[Crissa]

You can say the exact same thing about the lithium in batteries, cadmium in solar panels, copper in power lines, even the iron in wind turbines. It all has to be mined and eventually all of these systems need repair and/or replacement.

The best part is that you don't get anywhere near the same return on your energy invested with any of these as you do with nuclear, it's not even close.

I have a degree in physics and all the naysaying from older people who were taught to fear nuclear outright and all the young people who were raised by them drives me insane. It's the best solution we've ever made for true energy independence with no oil needed, but noooooOoOooo... Instead we just get stuck with half measures.

That doesn't make it renewable, though. And I honestly think the reports are under-counting the carbon from the concrete and length of the entombment and its maintenance.

-Crissa

 

[BillyGee]

That doesn't make it renewable, though. And I honestly think the reports are under-counting the carbon from the concrete and length of the entombment and its maintenance.

-Crissa

Just keep moving the goalposts, you've made a hobby out of it whenever the n-word gets dropped.

 

[rr6013]

Those are both about carbon emissions, it's why I specifically stated energy generation compared to energy invested. Nuclear is the greenest there is in terms of efficiency and carbon generation per kW.

Even in the doc you just posted nuclear produces 13 carbon units per lifecycle operation and solar produces 43. Whoever made that clearly has a chip on their shoulder because they put it under "non-renewables" when there's a recovery process for spent cores and a repletion rate of they're stored correctly.

The cold war ended and reactors have improved dramatically. We won't solve the need problem of everyone connecting their car to the grid without nuclear being considered.

You aren’t wrong.
BUT neither is @Crissa.

This puddle stomp in a rainstorm(re:Ian) is going-on as a nuclear Safety Officer in Miami is sitting in a nuclear plant full of containerized nuclear waste. Waste storage for which it was never designed, intended and for which there exists no option to do anything other than hold the “stuff” onsite. Beyond the safety factor exceeded years ago, there isn’t any more room to store the stuff.

IMO the sustainable soapbox for nuclear is underwater until transport and storage become more than merely holding the stuff in major metropolitan cities like Miami.

I’ll listen to how nuclear is going to put a dent in CO2. Not before, nuclear industry fixes cascading failures that historically prove it isn't very sustainable. It can start with storage.

 

[BillyGee]

You aren’t wrong.
BUT neither is @Crissa.

This puddle stomp in a rainstorm(re:Ian) is going-on as a nuclear Safety Officer in Miami is sitting in a nuclear plant full of containerized nuclear waste. Waste storage for which it was never designed, intended and for which there exists no option to do anything other than hold the “stuff” onsite. Beyond the safety factor exceeded years ago, there isn’t any more room to store the stuff.

IMO the sustainable soapbox for nuclear is underwater until transport and storage become more than merely holding the stuff in major metropolitan cities like Miami.

I’ll listen to how nuclear is going to put a dent in CO2. Not before, nuclear industry fixes cascading failures that historically prove it isn't very sustainable. It can start with storage.

https://fortune.com/2022/09/28/hurricane-ian-florida-radioactive-waste-phosphate-mining/

I can't find anything about containers of waste, but this slurry is all from mining, not nuclear plants.

 

[SwampNut]

Shoot it into the sun, and restore some of the energy we're stealing from it. Musk can do it.

 

[M. Ralston]

The craziest I’ve heard is:

• EV manufacturing causes more carbon emissions than it will save.
• Your EV is made in China, why do you hate America
• They're so quiet that all pedestrians will be killed.
• Air pollution from EV tire wear is 1000 times worse than ICE tailpipe emissions.
• Our drinking water will be destroyed by all the poisons leeching out of discarded battery packs.
• There is not enough lithium in the world, which is mined by starving children.
• The electric fields will give you cancer.
• The U.N. is going to confiscate my classic ICE car.
• It takes 8 hours to charge, long trips are impossible.
• You'll die of starvation in a traffic jam.
• They will randomly drive you into a tree and kill you.
• Charging in the rain will electrocute you.
• Driving in the rain will electrocute you.
• The grid can't handle EV charging.
• There is nowhere to charge.
• There are plenty of places to charge, but you'll be murdered.
• They can be hacked, and you'll be murdered.
• The chargers can be hacked, and explode your car, or take out the grid.
• EVs are too slow. (lolwhut)
• EVs are too fast to be safe. (ok maybe lool)

While pulling out of a Super Charger in SoCal a group of dudes in a lifted 4x4 yelled out that I was a communist democrat…it’s fkn totally political, and getting worse as gas prices go up…

 

[Tinker71]

You can say the exact same thing about the lithium in batteries, cadmium in solar panels, copper in power lines, even the iron in wind turbines. It all has to be mined and eventually all of these systems need repair and/or replacement.

The best part is that you don't get anywhere near the same return on your energy invested with any of these as you do with nuclear, it's not even close.

I have a degree in physics and all the naysaying from older people who were taught to fear nuclear outright and all the young people who were raised by them drives me insane. It's the best solution we've ever made for true energy independence with no oil needed, but noooooOoOooo... Instead we just get stuck with half measures.

Nuclear should definitely be part of our power mix. With the exception of terrorism/dirty bombs etc. we should not fear nuclear. We need to keep it as low as reasonable though. 30%?? I have cited it before, there is evidence that human generated heat especially waste heat is contributing to global warming by ~30-40%. Not just changes to our atmosphere. Nuclear will add a ton of new heat to our closed loop.

1.) Eventually perovskite panels will become durable and cheap which will take that 40g per Kwhr way down.
2.) Eventually solar panels will reach near saturation in which case they are recycled and upgraded as they wear out, again brining that 40 g per Kwhr way down.
3.) Hopefully all composites (including boats) will be recycled (waste to energy) which will bring the wind lifecycle carbon emissions down.
4.) Solar roof tiles should displace all normal roofing on the productive surfaces. I would like to see that figure.
5.) Agrivoltaics is exciting too.
6.) Covering water storage reservoirs and canals also have multiplying effects.

Every warehouse roof top should have solar. Solar gets a bad rap when it covers good ground. As it probably should.

 

[M. Ralston]

EV's are politically polarized for some people. Honestly, the anti-fossil fuel vanity license plates on EV's don't help the situation. This genius should have taken another car to stock up on gas before the storm:
?

Or the inverse…the only way to get gas to the ice vehicle was through a EV? The vanity plate is ironic until it helps petrolheads get out of trouble…

 

[M. Ralston]

That is not a political position. That is a natural fact.
You can only have politics between two or more people. (Like war remember?)

One person, who can have their own original thoughts, doesn't need any other person to confirm their own bias.

Like EM said recently, do you know who's programing is running your head, and do you want it there?

Explain how the behavior of the natural world is "political" without changing the meaning and definition of "political" as is commonly accepted. Without definition there is entropy.

Example of non-political: Rock falls off cliff. Sun rises. Galaxy forms. Leaves grow on trees. Why did the chicken cross the road? To get to the other side. No politics required.

Or maybe "everything" is NOT everything after all?

Hence my statement that you speak like a 100% politician, because you have something that you seek validation from others, so you and your ideas have a place to belong. Have you ever tried to do something nobody else has ever done? Try some self-validation to get your own perspective, you don't have to parrot other peoples perspectives to find yourself, in fact doing so will only bring you further away from who you really are. Remember: Who you believe to be, is not the same as who you are; so finding yourself means shedding the beliefs that others have imposed on you.

It might be good time to exclude politics and get on with life, if it's come to the point that "everything is political".

Very well thought out and articulated point but…only applies if live you on a self sustaining island, or in the middle of a vast wilderness or dessert. If you live in a governed society…all your decisions, actions you take, and consumption have been directly or indirectly affected by politics.

 

[CyberGus]

Very well thought out and articulated point but…only applies if live you on a self sustaining island, or in the middle of a vast wilderness or dessert. If you live in a governed society…all your decisions, actions you take, and consumption have been directly or indirectly affected by politics.

It's a mistake to limit the term "political" to only governance. Any time humans congregate, many will act upon interests of status rather than matters of principle.

 

[CyberGus]

Nuclear should definitely be part of our power mix. With the exception of terrorism/dirty bombs etc. we should not fear nuclear. We need to keep it as low as reasonable though. 30%?? I have cited it before, there is evidence that human generated heat especially waste heat is contributing to global warming by ~30-40%. Not just changes to our atmosphere. Nuclear will add a ton of new heat to our closed loop.

1.) Eventually perovskite panels will become durable and cheap which will take that 40g per Kwhr way down.
2.) Eventually solar panels will reach near saturation in which case they are recycled and upgraded as they wear out, again brining that 40 g per Kwhr way down.
3.) Hopefully all composites (including boats) will be recycled (waste to energy) which will bring the wind lifecycle carbon emissions down.
4.) Solar roof tiles should displace all normal roofing on the productive surfaces. I would like to see that figure.
5.) Agrivoltaics is exciting too.
6.) Covering water storage reservoirs and canals also have multiplying effects.

Every warehouse roof top should have solar. Solar gets a bad rap when it covers good ground. As it probably should.

Be afraid of nuclear. Be very afraid. (I'm not saying we shouldn't use it, but we need to respect the shit out of it.)

Rooftops need more solar. When the Texas gigafactory is finished, it will be a 35MW power plant!

 

[Crissa]

Just keep moving the goalposts, you've made a hobby out of it whenever the n-word gets dropped.

What goalposts were moved?

I can disagree with a source while using it begrudgingly. At no point has the goalpost moved.

-Crissa

 

[JBee]

Very well thought out and articulated point but…only applies if live you on a self sustaining island, or in the middle of a vast wilderness or dessert. If you live in a governed society…all your decisions, actions you take, and consumption have been directly or indirectly affected by politics.

Even suburbanites live in the natural world.

I can accept more things are becoming political, but that's only because mankind let it, the reality of the natural world exists even without humans. We need to fit it's cyclic nature, not it our politics. All politics are a short term fad, based on short term motivations and popularity contests, and a fools democracy to produce the illusion of freedom. In a fiat currency world the only freedom is that of the coin, as people can only do what they can afford.

 

[rr6013]

https://fortune.com/2022/09/28/hurricane-ian-florida-radioactive-waste-phosphate-mining/

I can't find anything about containers of waste, but this slurry is all from mining, not nuclear plants.

Not reading, from people in the industry. They have worry that stuff happens while it’s piling up. Piling up in places it was never meant to be.

Gen’l public don’t get exposed to the belly of the beast. I have more but this suffices to put a fine point on every nuclear lover’s dream. Nuclear is no different than petroleum industry. They are mitigating forever and cleanup looks like Japan.

 

[Thinking About It]

So many morons. EVs aren't the answer to all of life's problems, but also, 95% of the "information" against them is made up billshit.

This week it's been: How are you going to charge your EV when a hurricane takes the power out? As if gas stations still work with no power. BUT! Solar still works! Where are you going to get gas for your car if there's no power? Also, everyone with a brain charged their EV to 100% at home. Where you able to fuel up at home before it hit?

Idiots.

Politics and technology have become so intertwined that many, on both sides, cannot separate the two.